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It couldn't have happened any other way. Because of everything else that's ever happened, we're always going to make that choice, the same choice. And so knowing that it couldn't be any other way, it's really allowed me to release any regret or that irritation or frustration that can come from like, oh, should have been this way, or if I would have chose that, then this wouldn't have happened.
It just kind of takes that perspective out completely as even an option. Thank you for discovering More with us today. My name is Benoit Kim and together we will be exploring the depth of the human mind.
Today's conversation with a restorative, breathwork expert and spiritual healer will teach you why choices are an illusion and how to live in the flow in today's modern society. Aja Rose is a sacred rest facilitator, restorative breathwork expert, and a natural medicine practitioner. In January.
I spent a few days at her and Yahshua's Sacred Rest Retreat in Boulder, Colorado. We quickly became fast friends and you will see why she is such a beautiful soul. From today's conversation, Aja leads her cyclical lifestyle with tranquility, which took her over 20 years to cultivate.
This required her to move through her own healing trap from the onset of daily chronic migraines that plagued her since she was six years old. Stay until the very end because Aja has a very special performance prepared just for you. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Aja as much as I have on the show.
Before the episode, here is the sponsor of the week. How many times do you have to switch stations to find the music you like? US too, which is why we've created Cool FM, the perfect blend of adult hits, modern country and your favorite classic. Cool FM is accessible on all mobile platforms and smart devices so you can multitask and listen to the music you like best.
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Cool FM. And now, please enjoy my conversation with the amazing Aja Rose. Discover More discover More is a show for independent thinkers by independent thinkers.
Aja, I'm excited to reunite virtually this time and welcome to the show. Thank you, Benoit. It's an honor to be here with you.
Likewise. So I want to start off with, I think, probably the biggest pillar in your life. What is your philosophy of sacred rest as it is ever evolving? Just my own journey of being just so exhausted from being on such a long healing journey.
Yeah, essentially since I was six years old, just constantly trying to figure myself out and heal myself. And even though it had been some years that I had really healed the migraines, that energy carried into just resting from the character, the different characters that we've been holding up for so long and just a lifetime almost. Of being in this culture of constant doing and needing to be someone and needing to figure our life out and living in this way that in modern society I perceived to be kind of overly masculine and not really attuned to the rhythms of nature which are much more feminine, much more cyclical.
And so it's also honoring the different seasons that we go through in our life, not only just the seasons of nature. Can you elaborate on your process of shedding the belief that you don't have to accomplish anything at all? Because seeking or healing is now another accolade, another thing we're trying to accomplish through the Erico spiritual lens? Yeah, I think it's tricky if we're being exposed to Instagram or social media. Nothing against any of these people.
I do it in some ways as well, but it has turned into somewhat of a marketplace, and a lot of the marketing is speaking to parts of us that are considered to be wrong or a problem. And here I have the solution for you. And I think for me, it's a process of continuing to remember that I have everything I need.
There's nowhere to get to. And really coming back to what do I enjoy doing? Not what do I think I should be doing? The worst should is like the instilled, right, that the should suggest externality or being instilled from the outside. But what you just shared, Aja, reminds me of a quote paraphrasing it here, but it's something along the line of the reason why we all have gods within us is because we are a droplet of the ocean.
We are a part of the divine, but we're not the divine. We're not the ocean, but we are all part of it. It's like the idea of oneness.
Yeah, I always love that analogy of the ocean. I share that quote because I think it's tricky, as you said, because I think seeking healing and the desire to know more about the oneself and the betterment emotionally, mentally and spiritually is a strength. But when you overdo it, it's like the bead you have, you forget the being the only focus in the doing the having, which is, I think a lot of our society is getting caught under.
Yeah. And I think for me and this is a big part of sacred rest in terms of healing is what I've been finding more and more is that when we kind of let go of that intense underlying energy of needing to fix and needing to be the best version of ourselves, and we just kind of relax into the flow of life, then life, naturally, is always, I think, in every moment, giving us the perfect opportunities that we need specifically to heal whatever happened on our journey. And it can come in any way.
And I think that's where it can get confusing is in our society, we've tended to separate healing and spirituality as like, oh, this is what I do to heal. And this is what I do to be spiritual, but it could be anything. And so if you want to do spiritual things and you enjoy doing things that are in the healing realm, then cool, that's fine, do that.
But don't think that it needs to be that way. It really just comes back to awareness. I know this is part of the ethos or part of the premise for the sacred retreat that you and Yashua host, is that you two don't really separate healing or spiritual from life.
And I think that's the first time I heard that where it's so obvious, but it's like the plain truth often hides in plain sight. Where YouTube told me and taught me when we hung out in person was that spirituality is life. It's not a separate domain.
It's part of life. Healing happens as part of life as well. And can you elaborate on that? Why I think a lot of us are caught under this dichotomy of spiritual is spiritual.
Healing is healing, mental health is mental health, and life is separate, even though life is a big umbrella that encompasses everything. Yeah, Yash and I talk about this a lot. I think it's just really tricky.
I think living in this modern society because of how many different teachings, different lineages and philosophies and modalities there are. I mean, it's endless. And I think up until modern times and more, when we were living more tribally and connected to the land, there was just a way.
This is my perception of it. You grew up and you learned from your elders, and you used the medicine that was on the land that you were living on, and there was just a way of doing things, and now it's just endless. And I think for me, I'm always needing to check myself to not lose my own inner wisdom.
We're going into conceiving a child, and that is like a whole nother Pandora's box of information and different perspectives and philosophies on how to do it and how to do all the things the whole way. And so I've really made a commitment to myself going into this because I know my old patterns of wanting to do all the research and figure it out, and it's like, I'm just not going to go there. I'm going to do as little research as I absolutely need to, and especially when it comes to birthing a child, I think women have we all have superpowers to really tap into our wisdom, even if maybe we don't feel connected to our intuition.
It comes online, I truly believe, when you're going through that journey. I had a conversation with a cognitive psychologist recently, and we were just talking about the restorative property of our bodies, innately so, because that's what you're alluding to, right? The inner intelligence, ancient wisdom that our body beholds. Of course, a lot of us got lost, got not as attuned went offline, because of distractions and so on.
But she shared this analogy about when you put on a bandaid on a scar or a wound, it's not the Band Aid that's healing the wounds, it's your body healing the wounds. The Band Aid. Just stopping the bleeding.
Likewise, when you point a finger at the moon, don't get caught up in the finger, look at the moon. But I think America at large looks at the finger. And what you share sort of reminds me of that saying, because I'm not a woman, clearly, and I probably don't have that superpower, but I do believe that all of us have deeper than self aspects we can truly tune into and cultivate a little bit further through intentionality and mindfulness.
Yeah, I use that analogy a lot with the Band Aid. It's like if we can just relax and trust and get out of the way, life and our body, it knows what to do, and there isn't a deep intelligence there within all of us, and especially with healing. I think this is a very unfortunate paradigm that our medical system has conditioned us into, that when we have symptoms, it means that something's wrong and, oh, no, I have a stomachache, something's wrong, I need to figure it out, or whatever it is.
And yeah, I think it's a really interesting perspective to start trying on the lens that maybe something's right, maybe my body is actually telling me something and it's going through a process so that it can continue to evolve and transform and naturally upgrade, essentially. Like getting sick. I always tell people, like, great, you're getting a nice upgrade.
Yeah, that's a good I don't know too much about medicine, but I do know that fever has its purpose. When you have fever, that's how you fight a lot of the diseases, inflammatory symptoms. When you have diarrhea, that's how you release the toxins.
And I think, of course, there is a threshold and you don't want to just sit in bed and saying, oh, I have 120 degree fever. My body's upgrading. Of course there is.
Yeah, you probably really upgrade to the afterlife. But I just want to share that because our body does know itself really well, and we do have to tap into that a little bit further. But speaking of ancient wisdom, Aja, where you actually have a lifestyle that is literally attuned to the cyclical nature, like during the winter, you sleep more during the spring and summer and so on.
Can you expand on this? Because when you two told me this, I was like, wow, this reminds me of like, bears or animals almost have like a hibernation cycle and so on. Can you expand on this with whatever directions you want to take? Continuing to live in this way, seasonally, for me, it's just brought so much more joy and fulfillment. I'll take food, for example.
Our biggest thing is we love to just eat locally and really where food has a story to it. It just makes me so happy when I'm eating a meal and it's like, oh, my friend Rich grew this and he has a whole nonprofit of saving the seeds. And my other friend Laura helped can this and there's just like a whole story to it.
And I feel like I can't not think about that when I'm eating it. And so eating seasonally, you're always excited for whatever's next because there's different kind of excitements and benefits of each season. And when I used to just eat whatever I wanted year round, it just kind of loses the novelty of it.
But come springtime, it's like, oh my gosh, we get to forge all these things that are just coming up from their slumber and eating all the fresh greens. So that's been a huge joy for me, living cyclically. And it helps give me permission to be in the own seasons that I'm in personally.
So if I'm not feeling inspired, like, well, it's winter, cool. I shouldn't be inspired most of the time. So I feel like it really gives you the permission to just be where you're at without seeing as that something's wrong.
Very strength based. We talked about non pathologizing, right? Like, oh, just because you have a certain symptom doesn't mean there's something wrong. It might be just a perception.
And how do you really, I guess, tune in with that voice when you said, oh, it's winter, I'm not as inspired. Maybe other people are doing a lot more things right now to get ahead of the game and so on, because there's always this invisible force of competition. Even in Colorado, as you know, the spiritually heightened woke community.
Right. Whereas me in La, it's the hyper hustle culture where five days a week, six days a week not enough. You have to work seven days a week.
But I'm like, well, but God rested on 7th day, so who am I to work on Sunday? Even though I do work on Sunday sometimes. But how do you tune into that voice whenever that resistance or the distraction comes up? Yeah, I mean, it's such a subtle long term process. Like when I started this sacred rest journey for a long time would have to sit with the fact that it was really hard for me to just sit and be and do nothing.
And so for me, it really helped to kind of bring in maybe habits that I already had. For example, with just strengthening my ability to just sit and be. I started for a few months, I would just do foot soaks and I made the commitment that I wasn't going to be on my phone, I wasn't going to read, I wasn't going to play guitar, I was just going to sit there and look out the window and by doing a foot.
Soak that was like enough to kind of help recondition my patterns to where now I don't need to do the foot. Soak, I mean, I can if I want to, but now I can just lay on the couch and look out the window. And so I think starting small, that's something I've learned over and over again.
For example, with my phone. I've always had a hard relationship with my phone of just not enjoying the pattern of constantly needing to check it. And I used to try to do these huge kind of radical experiments of having dumb phones and having no phones, and it didn't last.
It always kind of backfired. So finding a way that really works for your lifestyle and where you're at, like, really being honest with where you're at and knowing that it's a lifelong journey to continue to kind of unwind these different conditionings that we have in this kind of crazy modern culture that I'm really choosing. I think one of the many games of life is learning unlearning.
Learning unlearning. Learning unlearning till you die. So can you share some of the lessons? Because I had the opportunity to partake like no phone, no technology morning or silence morning.
And of course, you and Yash sometimes do the entire or often almost on a weekly basis, silence Sunday, where you two don't talk to each other at all the moment you wake up. But there is a subtle acknowledgement and there's no awkwardness. Just so fluid.
And then you two reconvene and re emerge together over dinner, over mindful eating those seems pretty crazy to a lot of modern folks who live in La or other major cities. They're like what? You don't talk to your partner that you live with for 10 hours the moment you wake up till dinner? It's so awkward. What do you do? But can you share some of that process? And what have you so far taken away from this consistent and cultivated practices you've had for a while? Yeah, I mean, the Silent Day is a perfect example of try something out that's consistent, that is really practical for where you're at, what your lifestyle is, and how it can continue to build.
So, for example, we started The Silent Days probably like six months ago, and when we started, we kind of used it as a way to do all these house projects. We would like, can 50 pounds of tomatoes or whatever and do all these things. And it's been cool to see for me how it's evolved.
Now, I might do one project, but most of the day I'm really just resting and being in nature and just not doing much. And so I think for me, the consistency has been key. Like, okay, every Sunday, this is what we're doing.
And, yeah, I mean, the silence thing, I absolutely love it. It might be awkward at first, but very quickly it's like, dang, we have to start talking again. No, Yaj and I, we love talking to each have, you know, endless conversations so it's actually a nice polarity to that.
Yeah, I'm all about tiny habits. I've always been about that. And so finding a habit that you already have and how can you integrate something in that kind of fits next to it? So you kind of have that trigger of the already established habit.
I think when I did the silence morning on my last day, friday morning before I left for Denver from Boulder, I remember because I'm extroverted, right? And then obviously I immensely enjoyed our conversations and we became fast friends, just like that. Click. Of course, we had some other synchronistic events that allowed you to come back from your Hotsping retreat.
But I remember when I did my morning meditations, I did my whole morning routine came out. I saw yahshua at the kitchen. I think you were still in the bedroom at the time.
And I had the split second thinking of what do I do? Do I do a head knot? Do I bow? Do I acknowledge? Like, what do I do in this moment? And it was so awkward. And I said, you know what? It is as you shall. And then we both looked at each other, did a quick head knot, I went outside soaked in this beautiful weather, beautiful balcony view that you two have, and then came back and everything was so fluid and it's just so natural.
And at least for me, it made me deeply appreciate the conversations we had after breakfast. And once we started the toning practice and like the music circle afterwards. And it's such a unique experience that most people don't have, because if you do, it not with the aligned and resonating people, you look crazy, you bring this idea, they're like, what are you talking about? What? So I feel like it would have been cool to highlight this because it's really one of many cool and very deep practices that you have.
Thank you. Yeah. And from what I remember, it was after the silent portion where we did the toning on the deck.
And I just remember you having so much clarity and insight, and I think one of your main takeaways kind of came through that it's just life is like the journey kind of thing after that silence. And I think that's really common when we go inward. Just like in the winter, it's like to go inward and rest more.
It allows us, when springtime comes, to have that expansive energy and that clarity and that motivation to get out there and start planting seeds and planning a garden or planning another project. It's like a fertile season. So the more we go internal and rest in this cyclical way, then the more we're kind of building our reserves of that energy, that fertile energy that can be put into whatever project or thing you're wanting to create.
At the balcony. What I realized is life itself is a peak experience. And going from a state of nonexistence to existence by being alive.
That's it. That is the ultimate peak experience. And of course, we all have experience psychedelics.
I'm an aspirational psychedelic assisted therapist. And there are other ways to achieve this transpersonal states, alternative consciousness to really drive the container of life a little bit further, so to speak. But I do feel like a lot of us sit on the sacred treasure that we call life for seeking the droplets or the quarters and pennies when you already have a bank vault of billions of dollars.
Of course I share that, even though that's still a very resonating thought and insight I've had as soon as it came back. I got caught up with SEO business, grinding the hustle, the projects, the responsibilities of life, but as you said, tiny habits. And I think you shared this, where healing happens in a moment or breakthrough happens in a moment.
It's just a process that takes time. Yeah, really our resistance to the process and that kind of comes back to when we think something's wrong that causes stress and frustration and worry, essentially resistance to the process. And so if you are having symptoms, how can you really just kind of soothe that part of you that is worried and freaked out and keep tapping into that deeper trust that just like winter passes? What if we didn't know that? Just hypothetical, like an alien comes here and they have no idea about the seasons and no one tells them that in winter everything dies and it turns brown.
If you didn't know that, you'd be like, oh my God, everything died. This is horrible, it's freezing, we can't grow any food. But we have that trust that spring is going to come back and everything's going to turn green.
And sometimes I forget, I'm like, dang, why do I live here at this time of the year? But yeah, come spring it's like, yeah. So yeah, that trust is constant practice. Trust about the self and the universe and things will happen the way they are meant to be if you have that belief.
Of course. So I want to go deeper into the reasons why it's important for us to, I guess, volume our relationship with water a little bit more and you can go as deep as you want. That's the aspects I really enjoy.
But can you nerd out on some of your knowledge and exposure and practice relate to water wisdom, the water molecules? Because my limited understanding is that like affirmations, when you provide affirmations to water or like the snowflakes, they literally change shapes based on your affirmations. And based on the affirmations you give water can literally change on a molecule level. Please don't ask me any questions.
That's the extent of my knowledge. But yeah. Aja, what can you teach me about just the water wisdom and why it's almost like a lost art that so many of us are far removed from yeah, I love that you called it a lost art, because it really is, I think, such a foundational relationship and art of being human.
And water, I really see it as a living being, and I also see it as just like a crystal can hold information. Like we use crystals and computers and different technology. Water has that same crystalline matrix.
And so it literally is like the biggest storehouse ever for information. Some people say it literally holds the information that since the starting of creation and so coming deeper into this relationship of reciprocity, knowing that the water that I drink literally within, I think it's like a few minutes, it becomes your blood. We're mostly water, so that water is becoming us and it's essentially the vessel for consciousness.
And water can either be in a dormant, almost like not dead, but like a dormant state. And so when we bring water back to life, because in nature, water is constantly vortexing, it's constantly spiraling. Even raindrops have a spiral when they come down.
And so that spiral is keeping it alive, and it's taking in all of the different resonances and the tones of nature. And that crystalline matrix stays in that kind of snowflake pattern and there's an electrical charge to it. So it's giving us when it's in that alive state, it's giving us that quality of aliveness.
We can talk more about how in your own life, you can kind of harvest or bring your own water back to life, even just like stirring it with a spoon, creating that vortex for 30 seconds, you're bringing it back alive and you're creating a more coherent structure so that you are a more coherent structure. So it's a really fun, I think, just such a fulfilling relationship to deepen into. Can you elaborate or expand about the vortexing? Because every time we drink water, the amazing spring water you two have, you always spend about, I think, two minutes, a minute to two vortexing flipping upside down and things.
And of course, that's the container in the context that you two are in. I can't replicate that in downtown Los Angeles. Tell me more about the vortexing and just some of the practicality and maybe some of the rationalities or reason behind, aside from what you just shared, it can get overwhelming to kind of look into the world of all the different products out there for water science.
So I always like to just keep it simple and really be realistic with what you have, knowing that you'll continue to deepen as your excitement grows and as you start to see the benefits of it. So I think the most important thing, though, is for the majority of people with where they're living is if you only have access to tap water, is getting a good filter. And that's also a loaded statement because there's so many filters out there.
But even just like there's a life straw water bottle that's a really great filter for like $50. So filtering it is huge because tap water, unfortunately, is just like, really scary. Just this is not even really water anymore.
So one thing I always like to tell people, a really great resource is findaspring.org. And you'd be surprised there's actually springs, I mean, in every state somewhere, at least a couple. So you might be surprised that there's a quality spring right near where you live.
And even if you have to drive an hour, it's so fun to go get a bunch of water. So filtering it and then in terms of structuring, it is kind of that next stage of bringing it back alive. And the one I have that you're talking about is a really nice one, and it's only like $150, and you can travel with it.
So I can share a link to that. But there's a lot of different ones. For structuring, I have that other one that you saw.
It's like a big craft that's also around $150. You can even make it you can definitely make your own water structure. Just something that keeps it spinning and again, even just something that spins it for a few minutes, like one of those cappuccino frothers that honestly works really great.
And then there's kind of another step if you really want to nerd out, and that is energizing it. And that's when you can bring in the use of magnets, because there is an electrical charge to water. And so the one I have has magnets in it to where it's bringing that charge back.
And then also, if you are filtering water, sometimes it can be good to add some trace minerals back into it, especially with like, reverse osmosis water. I don't recommend drinking distilled water on a regular basis. And ro water, it's not ideal, but if you are drinking ro water, then you really want to be adding back the minerals because it kind of leeches the minerals from our body because it's lost its minerals.
This vortexing water and water structure idea to almost revive in it or recharge the magic that water molecules hold reminds me of when we're kids. Do you remember you would spin the water and create that vortex by spinning it. Kids and adolescents hold better intuition than adults do.
This is a general blanket statement. Unless you have adults who cultivate years and years of practices like we do, of course that's different. And I wonder, A, what was the original point of who started that vortexing water spinning trend? Because it's ubiquitous across the world.
Because I didn't come to the US. Until I was 15 years old. And in China, in Korea, where I lived before that, I remember a lot of middle schoolers elementary kids walls of the same thing, like, how fast can you spin the water? How much Fortex can you generate? So in a weird way, there is this collective consciousness that creates this trend across.
The globe. Yeah. And that makes me think of this intuitive knowledge that we have within the water that makes us up there's literally like the information.
It's like a supercomputer that you can tap into at any time. So by increasing the quality of your water, you are just kind of optimizing that supercomputer that we are. It also made me think of cats.
It's a big thing to have the little water fountain cat water dispensers, so they know that moving water is living water and stagnant water is dormant, kind of dead water. This is Synchronistic, where I came across this instagram reel yesterday, not related to interview at all. And it's like a cartoon thing about mental health, about positivity.
Not like toxic positivity, but just really, really cheerful ones. And the real talked about we're a makeup of 70% water, as you talked about. And one of the universal properties that our human bodies have is we float.
So it was a metaphor about when trauma hits us, when life hits us, when the inevitable tidal waves of life, because growing pain and suffering is part of life. When they hit us, we may be sinking, but we always float back to the water. Only if when you surrender and let go.
Because when you try to float, you don't float. You lose oxygen, you panic, you swallow the water, which makes you even flop more, which makes you even more dense. So you go back down.
But if you literally just hold your breath and you almost lay down in water, everyone floats. That's how water 70%. That's physics.
Don't ask me questions, but that's how that works. So it also reminds me about that water is really magical even within us, in the physiology. Oh, yeah.
There's like 60 different anomalies with water that scientists just have no idea they can't understand. Unfortunately, I think we get confused because it's just like this clear, tasteless thing, but there's so much going on there. I remember this fact that there's like, 440,000 latices of this crystal matrix, and I just think that's so wild.
I think this is so true. Might be outdated, but as of now, we know more about the universe and the stars and the galaxies than we know more about our water, like the oceans, because 90% of the ocean is still not covered, because our technology can't get to that beyond 10,000 meters. I think that's our limit.
And crazy stuff. But speaking of mysterious aja, I want to take a soft pivot and talk about the combo. Your own healing modality that you facilitate and you share with your clients and the folks that you know.
So your guided private and retreat sessions include, like, an intuitive menu. It's like a buffet of different flavors. It includes restorative, breath work that you're really, really proud of and that you love because you know a bunch of them.
Yoga, negra, reiki, abdominal massages, herbal medicine, nature and channeled sung how did you come to this specific combo that you cultivate and you practice almost day to day? Again, my intention is to really just get out of the way and kind of help create the conditions for that. So I often do a lot of virtual meditations or breath work sessions and really just guiding that person to create their own kind of sanctuary. And again, the conditions for that deep rest to happen where really just creating the space for our own innate healing intelligence to come online.
And what I've found is that it really comes back to the power of presence. And so if I was kind of going through my own process just sitting here by myself, as opposed to if you were just like we are now, you were also just sitting here with me and just sitting in presence, we're just totally amplifying the power of the magic that's possible in the moment. So I've found that time and time again that when you can amplify the presence, then you amplify the magic.
I've seen really incredible things happen with group healings. Where I've led one before, where I'm not saying that we were responsible for this, but it was very magical and synchronistic. And an elder friend almost died, was on the edge of death, and he's in his eighty s and we had like 20 of us and we just pulled his picture up and we all just sat there and saw him in light and saw him in health and he made a miraculous comeback.
And this was like five years ago and he's still going strong. So that's one of many really cool stories that I've heard with the power of that group mind and the group presence. My brain is going somewhere weird, but I think I can make this fit where we often because language is fascinating, right? Especially in podcasting.
That's how the art manifests through language based on different compositions, how you utilize metaphors, symbolism and so on. One of the thing we talk a lot about is especially all three of us and you and I is being on the same frequency because you can be on the same brainwaves and frequency in person, but also through a virtual container. We can also hit flow state quite easily.
And I usually tap into flow state almost every conversations based on the immersive state and the surrender and the presence that you're talking about. But almost to my question, in a digital therapy space, through intentionality, through mindfulness, and through almost absolute presence, we're almost concurrently tapping into the frequencies of the electromagnets, like the computer frequencies and wavelength and almost like our actual wavelength, the brain wavelength and the wavelength of the computers, and the technologies blend into one and create this delivery or deliverance. It is interesting to think about this in person.
Magic we often talk about can be replicated often with all the conditions that you talked about are met on our virtual capacity. And I think that's really, really fascinating. I find sometimes easier to get out of the way and just hold that neutral presence because I think sometimes when you're in person, it's like, oh, subtly, our own agenda can come in of what we think is going to help.
Like, oh, well, if I put my hands here, if I sing this song. So it's a very subtle dance of not letting our own kind of ego get in the way, whereas when it's digitally, it is a little easier to just sit back and just be in that neutral space. So speaking of not getting into our own way, I want to ask you about one of the most impactful incidents or moments you've gone through.
Aja and I think it's all related where when we don't block our own blessings, that's what that means. Life has a greater plans for us. And this is about your journey, love at first set with Yahshua and the traumatic incident you've gone through a while.
Like, why was this such a divinely, transformative moment for you? And can you share some of the intricacies that you feel called to? Yeah, again, I think this is a great example of when we can really trust in the unfolding of life. Things just kind of take care of themselves. In that experience, I really felt, I think, more viscerally than I ever have the unseen forces that are supporting me.
It truly felt like a medicine journey. And just to give some context of the story, this is when I first met my partner Yashua, almost three years ago on a camping trip. And it was in the afternoon, and the wind just got insane.
And we all got in our tents and my roommate's tent was right next to mine, and he's, like a really big dude. And he had a really big tent with a really big air mattress. And he just cracked open his tent door and a gus went in and literally lifted his tent with him in it.
And it did a 180 and landed on my tent with me in it. And as it was happening, I mean, it felt like an eternity, even though it was probably only like a minute and a half or something in the moment, I felt like I was going to die. And it was just like hauntingly similar to this reoccurring nightmare that I had had as far back as I can remember, of something collapsing in on me and just sheer panic of I have like a split second to escape and just that feeling of being trapped.
And so I'm freaking out all and he's like wrapped up like a burrito in the tent. So Yashua and another friend came out and tried to get him off and they eventually pulled me out of the tent. And I mean, for the next almost hour, it was like a full on spiritual experience.
And as it was happening. Even though I was like screaming and freaking out, there was like a part of my mind that was like, holy shit, this is your dream, being kind of almost like a trauma being resolved in trauma healing. It's like, when it resolves, that's often when we can really move beyond it.
And so it's like, I knew what was happening and when I got free of it, I went into this crazy trauma response of just like uncontrollable shaking. And I just remember sitting in the car and shaking and just kind of like feeling these deeper messages from all of this unseen support that I have of like, it's we're, we're helping you move through this and we're healing this. And it just ended up being like a magical night.
Yash and another friend ended up channeling the most beautiful song, like the perfect song I needed to hear. And then another amazing healer friend showed up that night and she kind of did some hands on healing, and that also felt like an yeah. So it also felt like a bit of other forces, like making sure Yash and I got together.
I was like, okay, yeah, this is thank you. And it was very instant with Yash and I, and that incident definitely helped us form a connection right off the bat. That's crazy because it sounds like the nightmare that was a consistent theme throughout your entire life from what it sounds like was an entrapment, the feeling of being entrapped with no way out but through this real life incident where you got crushed, almost got crushed by your roommate because of the gust of the winds.
You saw a way out. You didn't just see it, you went through the way out in real life. And I had a goosebump moment just now because I can't even imagine that shift from potential death to life.
And you making that meaning because we're meaning making machines back into creating that theme of you're like, wow, this is what it is. And yeah, that spiritual experience. I'm sure it was very spiritual psychedelic, like without the psychedelics.
Yeah, just trusting that we're always going to be offered what we needed and we're meaning making beings and so how can we really embrace? That was an easier challenge to embrace because it only lasted a few minutes, but it's trickier when it's longer. How can we really zoom out and see the bigger picture? Like the headache. I have no idea where I'd be without the headache journey.
I really attribute the incredible life that I'm living mostly to that journey. So I think this is related in a perfect segue into my next question. Ajao, where one of the most common saying in the spiritual healing, whatever world you want to call it as is everyone has their own timeline.
Some people say that in a BS way, and some people actually mean it if they're attuned to the actual meaning of that statement. But to you, Aja, what does that really mean? Because I sense that from what you just responded with, in a way, something I've been contemplating, this is kind of hard to articulate, but it is more of a non dual perspective that everything that happens in our life, in a sense, is like predetermined in some way, and in some way it's already happened. If you don't see time as linear, it's just this is kind of like where we are, where our perspective is, and it feels like this is what we're experiencing on that timeline.
It couldn't have happened any other way. Because of everything else that's ever happened, we're always going to make that choice, the same choice, or like a predetermined choice, in a sense. And so knowing that it couldn't be any other way, it's really allowed me to release any regret or that irritation or frustration that can come from like, oh, it should have been this way, or if I would have chose that, then this wouldn't have happened.
It just kind of takes that perspective out completely as even an option. And for me, it really allows me to just soften into the ride of like, oh, it is what it is. I'm just along for the ride, really.
Sometimes healing just takes as long as it takes, and we just got to ride it through. So while you were riding through this train of life that we're just the passengers of because I believe in free will through my Christian faith. At the same time, I do believe that time is nonlinear.
And there's no point of what if syndrome, because, in a sense, everything already had happened. And your decision is a culminations of all the decisions you made up to that point. So I agree with what you're saying, but tie that into your 20 plus years of healing process through your intense daily onset migraines, how did you not give up hope throughout this process? Because sounds like it was really, really arduous, very painful, very difficult, which eventually catalyzed this insight to decide, no more endless seeking for the sake of yeah, I mean, it's so much easier.
Looking back, it happened for me. I know how hard it can be when you're in it. I think that's where that nightmare of being trapped, I literally felt like I was trapped in almost like a virtual reality nightmare.
And being trapped in this body of pain, I'm always just amazed at the resilience of humans. And it's like no matter how hard it is, I don't believe that we're ever given anything that we can't handle. And so also, seeing things like that, in a way, as an initiation, and for me, looking back, it definitely feels like an initiation.
I feel like everything that I offer in terms of healing and being able to relate to people comes from my experience with that. And I think there was just always a part of me that wouldn't give up and just that I always knew that I would make it through it. Even when I was little, I would always say, like, I'm going to figure this out.
And once I do, I'm going to share it with everyone. And so, yeah, I think if we're meant to be alive, we're going to have that motivation and that drive and that even if it's a tiny spark of inspiration, unfortunately, I think when we do completely lose hope, we probably won't stay alive for that much longer. So yeah, maybe that's kind of like a radical statement.
But I do believe that if we're meant to be alive, we'll make it through. We'll have that hope. It's like the idea that we are, of course, like the culminations of all the experiences we lived before us.
So the fact that we're alive now means we've endured tremendous pain and sufferings and obstacles and challenges. Of course, the past does not always predict the future, but I think that's the reason why I have a mixed feeling with this rise of trauma talk and mental health. And I think people get too caught up in just talking only about feelings and trauma.
And I still subscribe to the point that to achieve post traumatic growth, you have to move through and face a trauma. Of course, everyone has their different timeline and that looks different for everyone. I'm not saying invite needless suffering for the sake of but when you're in light of really, really difficult challenges that you view as traumatic, sit with it, confront it, flirt with it, what is it telling you? And don't run away from it and just do it incrementally.
I think that's how we achieve this. But I share that. Because if you're alive, as you said, you've gone through some shit in life.
And that gives you this confidence that I don't know 100% for sure I will live through the next obstacle. But I know damn sure that I've gone through many before this. And I think that creates this self confidence, which I think is what you're talking about.
Yeah, I like what you said with trauma healing, really sit with it and what is it telling you? And one of my teachers, he always has this saying that everyone wants to heal but no one wants to change. And I just see the validity in that more and more of like I think for me in the past, especially like doing all the modalities and the spiritual seeking, for me, I saw how easy it was to get deluded that I was changing, delusional that I was changing. But to really change is quite a feat.
And I think that our ego will go to all these different extents to justify anything or we'll frame anything in a way that kind of serves that. So taking an honest look at your patterns, the different characters that you play or that you think are you and just how you're living your everyday life, really taking an honest look at that, starting the process of changing. I think that a lot of these deeper traumas and symptoms really start to naturally work themselves out.
As you're saying that, I just had this metaphor or imagery where for a caterpillar to cocoon out of its little cocoon, to become a butterfly, they have to break through the shell of the cocoon. And a lot of people don't know this. Not every caterpillar becomes a butterfly because that shell is hard.
You have to eat out all the nutritions, empty it out, and it's a battle. If you see a slow mo videos of a cocooning process for a caterpillar, most of them or no, all of them struggle. It's really, really difficult.
But then once you break through that barrier and the difficulty, they become a beautiful butterfly and they fly away. Otherwise, they get eaten by different predators. And I think that's like a beautiful way to encompass what you just said, where you have to move through that difficulty, in this case, trauma.
And once you move through it, you can unlock this beautiful thing called post traumatic growth. And that's an actual psychological phenomenon where a lot of people only talk about PTSD, post traumatic disorder, which is very real. It's extremely difficult, especially for veterans.
At the same time, there are ways to move through, and post traumatic growth is it's beautiful. It's amazing. At the same time, that only happens when you're confronted with the same trauma and the same trigger.
Healing sounds beautiful, and social media makes it so peaches and rainbows, but healing is hard work because you're not healed, you're not changed, as you just said, until you're confronted with the same trigger. Of course, when you're healing in isolations. Oh, great.
I moved through all my stuff. I journaled x, Y and Z. I thought about this.
I've studied different modalities. Okay. Confront and flirt with the same trauma that puts you in the container of healing the first place.
Can you move out of that alive? And that challenge or this reconfrontation? A lot of people aren't doing not necessarily to their faults, but that's when you know, oh, I've really healed through. Wow. I don't even think I've heard that statement.
Post traumatic growth. That makes me sad that I haven't even heard that term. That's really beautiful.
Yeah, and it's like, so much of that healing, it doesn't have to be in a, quote unquote healing setting. These patterns and these triggers are mostly, I think, coming up in our closest relationships. And that's where the honesty, that deep, honest self reflection comes in.
Because, again, these subconscious patterns, I think, are just like such incredible portals into this really deep healing where you might not even know that it's related, but on some level, it's all related. So, yeah, I think it's like a way to really integrate it into your own life, where you don't have to be spending thousands of dollars to go see someone. You can just really choose like, okay, I'm going to make the choice to be aware in my relationships and hopefully the people that we're in relationship with can offer that loving reflection.
And I think that's like the ultimate healing portal. I love portal analogies. And this is another soft Pivot.
But it's all related where I want to talk about your breath work for a bit because you've been well versed in many different types of breath work. Speaking of different modalities. But I know you personally practice and resonate the best with gentle, subtle form of breath work, which is restorative, because I know certain breath work is a lot more intrusive and aggressive, and it gives you this.
More accelerated, instantaneous euphoric high feeling that a lot of people are getting addicted to and getting dependent on. Especially with Jake Paul, the YouTuber boxer. He practices breath work before his fight and he talks about a lot more.
So it's creating a lot more traction in the mainstream media, which is cool. At the same time, as you know better than anyone, there are insidious aspects of certain breath work modalities. Yeah, it's a great question and something that I've been learning so much about being hubbled so many times along my own journey.
When I started teaching breath work seven years ago, I was doing a more active style, kind of the intense circular connected breathing where you're doing that for like an hour and it can be deceiving because it feels very powerful. You can have these intense cathartic releases and after the release you feel incredible. And so it's like, wow, so much is happening and I'm releasing so much.
And personally, I did get really addicted to it. It's even more intense when you do it in water. And I was doing it every day in the hot springs or in my bathtub for like hours at a time.
And I learned the hard way of that kind of breath work. I don't want to put down that kind of breath work. I really only want to speak from my own experience and from what I've learned as well from more recent teachers.
But I started developing my own breathing issues from doing so much of that breath work. I remember even about a year ago, I went to an Acupuncturist friend and he was like, well, this is weird. I honestly never really seen this.
But you have so much energy in the metal element, which is the lungs. He's like, this is really strange. I'm like, oh, I know why.
And I think I can explain it on two different levels, on more of a kind of physiological level when doing it in this really intense way, we're taking in so much raw energy and that's why we can feel that kind of quick high. But our meridian system and also just the different flows, the different chronic flows of the breath is so complex. I mean, it fills like, textbooks.
And so we're just like releasing the dam and bringing in this surge of energy and breath. And what that's doing is if there already is some imbalances, which if you're living in modern culture and using computers, I'm sorry, but there probably is some kind of restrictions or blockages. And so often those blockages can get amplified.
And also you might release some deeper patterns, deeper subconscious patterns or some repressed emotions. But because it's happening in such an intense, almost like, forceful way, it's happening at a rate that our nervous system really can't keep up with. And what I've seen happen, what happened with me, what I've seen with others, is those patterns can kind of set back in in a deeper way and then show up in other symptoms, even more intense symptoms.
And also just thinking of the nature of a lot of people in this modern society, we're biohacking and we're wanting to fully optimize ourself. And we're just pushing so hard and doing all the things. And so by just inviting in a breath that is gentle and restorative, we're also helping to balance out that go go energy.
And we're allowing our nervous system to and really, we're allowing all levels of our being to heal and to unwind in a way that is harmonious and where everything can kind of keep up with each other. The nervous system is on board. It's like, okay, yeah, I get this.
I can unwind this to where it actually stays. It sustains and it's a process. You're not just going to do a breath work session and blast yourself open and release all your trauma.
It might feel like that. Definitely had many sessions where it felt like that. But yeah, from my experience, it's just not how it works.
There's no quick fix like that. Another imagery and analogy came into my mind where it's almost like the metaphor of factory farming chickens. It's very thematic because you and Yasha are raising chicks of your own where you can accelerate you can almost manufacture chicken meat by pumping added hormones and growth hormones, and you can accelerate their growing process.
And that's what a lot of factory farming do, right? Like Tyson's, where they pump these chicks out really fast on a massive level and they taste good. But of course, added hormones, growth hormones, we're not going to know the detriments of that impact until like 30, 40 years down the road because you need like 50 years of longitudinal data to really study the impact on our human biology, what that means. So our kids might have three nipples, four eyes, six thumbs, who knows? But conversely, though, because that's what you're talking about, when you really let it unfold naturally, then the chicks are healthier.
They have a more sustainable life. The quality of their meat and nutritions are also better, which in turn improve our quality of living as well. But then it takes time.
Nobody likes taking time because now I want it tomorrow. And it's both concerning and I think it makes sense, where it does give you this delusion that, wow, my 30, 40, 20 years of trauma has been resolved in 1 hour. And of course these sessions are expensive.
They're also like a giant money making machines on a more darker aspect of that. But that's like the imagery or metaphor came to my mind. Yeah, it's a great metaphor.
Another one that comes to mind that feels similar is like building a dam. And building a dam that's kind of symbolizing just taking in so much breath in a short amount of time. And yes, it's going to produce a lot of raw energy like a dam.
That's why you do it, to create a ton of energy. But then all of a sudden, slowly, over time, all of the ecosystems start breaking down, all the little tributaries and streams that were subtly balancing and harmonizing all of the life and the ecosystems. It's a delicate balance.
And all those streams really and tributaries really represent all of the we have 72,000 energy channels, meridians, all these subtle channels. It's such a delicate, harmonious flow. And so just blasting that through there, you're not going to really harmonize all of these other subtler levels of prana and breath.
Yeah, no empire is built overnight. So great things take time. And I think all worthy things are effortful and a lot of effortful things are worthy.
In this case, breath work, healing, release of the energies and so on. And I want to hit you with a heavy hitter, deep cut question, which is a pending motherhood, which is, I think, the true epitome of sacred rest by being in tuned with your being. Do you have any fear points with your pending motherhood by welcoming your sacred child into this nostalgia sacred world in 2023, which is my cynicism speaking? Yeah, thanks for asking about that.
It just feels like such to me, such a massive thing to step into that I think if someone said they had no fear, I don't know if they were really aware of what they were stepping into. But it has been really cool because we've been planning on this very consciously, especially for the past like, six months. And so it's been cool to really see my own journey with that of again, being in this living in this cyclical way.
It's like going deep into this phase of leading up to it. I mean, this is like a big stage in itself that I think, unfortunately often gets skipped for a lot of people. Not by choice sometimes.
But it's been cool to see the fears transform as I sit with them. And I think this is relatable to anything that you're going into or just being alive at this time of really facing what the fears are and going into them. And something that Yash and I really like to do a lot is just kind of put yourself like what is a situation that you're super fearful? Like, for me, maybe one would know having to go into the hospital and get a C section.
Even though I feel like there's like a very small percentage chance that that would happen, I'm still preparing myself for that option and kind of surrendering that to yeah, that might happen. Or we could have a child with a disability. Okay, this is what I'm signing up for.
I'm surrendering to it all. And I think before my biggest fear was bringing a child into just like the uncertainty of the world at large. But I do believe that these souls are they're choosing to come here at this time and there's no victim energy there.
At this point, it's not even a choice. Yash and I talk about this a lot, too, of like, when you're living in the like, you're just kind of opening up to the like you're not even really making like, it just kind of becomes like at this point, we just know that that's a part of our journey. And also we've grappled with if it's not meant to be, who knows? Maybe I can't get pregnant.
And I've also accepted that possibility even though I don't feel like that's going to happen, but I've also accepted it. So yeah, it's been a great training of trust and surrender, for sure. Thanks for sharing.
And I know the lesson of trust and surrender have been the biggest lesson you've been embarking on since you're six years old with the migraines. And reminds me of whenever I used to get mad at my mom. And this is a philosophical difference where I think parents have more responsibility than kids because kids never got to choose to be born.
The parents made their decisions on their behalf. I will tell my mom that, mom, screw you. I never chose to be burned.
You chose to give birth to me and my sister. So you're responsible for everything. Yada, yada, yada.
Which is true. At the same time, I've never heard someone until now. You said that you also believe on a spiritual meta synchronistic level that the souls, the unborn kids, the unborn souls also choose their way into our lives.
And I think that's a cool perspective to have. And as you said, that's the best way to let go of the victim mindset. And I aspire to have your level of surrender because I probably asked this question to close out today's conversation to a little bit partial selfishness, where my biggest I don't know if fear is the right terminology, but my biggest resistance barrier challenge with my fiance because we'll get married soon, is having kids.
And that's a reflections of my trauma childhood, divorce and a couple of philosophies I uphold. Yeah, I think that's another insight and entry point for me to think more about and ponder this further in my own life, because I think surrendering about your life and surrendering about the inevitability of life in your life, that's hard, but it's doable through cultivations. But surrendering inevitable, uncertainties in the greater force of life that we call unknown in our kids, the future kids'life.
That's a whole different freaking monstrosity. And I think I sense from what you just shared yeah, it really is. And also knowing that I think it's a roomy poem of something alluding to the fact that we don't own our kids.
They're not even our kids, they're just coming through us and we get to bear witness to their journey. When you're just letting the way unfold, it just becomes so obvious. I was in a stage for a long time, too, where it was like 50 50.
Like, I don't know if I want kids. Oh, my God, that seems like the biggest decision ever. How am I ever going to choose the right one? Or whatever.
But again, you'll just reach a point where you just know and it just becomes so obvious of like, nope, we're not meant to have kids, or oh, duh, this is what's next for us. Yeah, the power of knowing is the unknowing, which is very counterintuitive. But yeah.
I want to close out the conversations before my red carpet moment for you, Aja, with my favorite Rumi's poem, because I'm a big fan of Sufism, which is what Rumi represents, and Rumi talks about, there is a place outside of right, doing and wrongdoing, and I will meet you there. And I think that sort of ties into the way we talked about throughout this conversation. And that's something I really try to orient my life with because of the hyperjudgmental culture we live in, the canceled culture, the value propositions, attaching or attacking other people based on their values, not based on who they are.
And I think we collectively, hopefully can get to a point sometime in the future to that middle way. Also as the Buddhist saying that Yahshua and I talked about. But with that, aja, speaking of the middle way, let me roll out the red carpet virtually for you, Aja.
Can you share some of the cool projects or retreat information? Since I do really consider the retreat I had with you two as one of the most transformative non psychedelic experiences I've had in the last couple years, since I do a lot of cultivated practices. But where can people connect with you further? Check you out your beautiful website, the retreats resources, and even private sessions with you and other medicine that you curate. Yeah.
Thank you so much. It was so fun having you here. I just enjoyed spending that time with you so much.
And just to see your commitment to serving others, it's really beautiful. Yeah, my website does have it all. Ajarose love.
I'd say I'm most excited about the sacred rest retreats, which are four days and one to four people, and just really bringing people into a certain resonance and kind of showing people what's possible of designing your life so that you are just living in this flow where it is innately healing and inspiring and fulfilling and having that deeper connection to food and the land that you're on and the water. All very simple foundational, human things. Opening the voice, remembering that we're all musicians, we all have a voice, we all have access to the spirit that flows through us.
So we like to remind people of that and create a container to really open up to that in a way that doesn't feel intimidating. And, yeah, one thing that I also just love doing is I just love creating spaces for people to really access that deep rest, that deep soul rest of letting go of that need to try to heal something or unlock something or activate something. But just the magic that happens when we really just let go and just rest.
And so I have a ton of guided meditations that I do in my online community called Patreon or on Patreon. So I release a lot of different meditations and just support on how to live more cyclically and how to get excited about the different seasons. And yeah, it's all on my website, ajarose love.
I appreciate you. So, to close out these conversations, do you have any parting messages for everyone who have made it to this end? I kind of want to share a song, a water blessing song that it's meant to be really shared everywhere. It's an algonquin lineage and it's really simple.
It sounds kind of tricky at first, but it's one of those songs where once you see the words, it just clicks. And my invitation is to really experiment with seeing water as a living being. And what does it mean to be in reciprocity with water and with nature, with plants, just like you would with humans? What can we offer them? What songs can we offer? Just offering our presence is so much and knowing that the same awareness that flows through us is flowing through everything.
And so we can come into such a deeper relationship, I think, from that perspective. So I'll share the song and I'll give you the link as well that kind of just shares the story of it and the lyrics. But I love to sing whenever I'm by water and just offer that gratitude to that which gives us life.
You have a great voice. So I'm ready. We'll see right now.
Okay, thank you. Benoit Nimi, wanday Miski nimi wai I AI and if you really want to go for it, you can sing. Sing it four times in each facing each direction.
But even just singing it once is such a beautiful offering to everything around you. So, yeah, share it if you feel called. Thank you for the harmony.
And I close my eyes, so I can really be in tune then. Oh, I feel good. That felt like extra quadruple shots of espresso without the caffeine.
Yeah. Like I said, I really appreciate your thoughtfulness and for your presence today. Thank you so much.
Benoit, you're just so easy to talk to, and I always just love your questions and your curiosity and your deep insights. So this was such a pleasure to spend more time with you. Thank you, thank you, and to all the listeners, as always, I will include all of Aja's amazing resources, her information in the show notes and episode link below.
And as always, I really, really appreciate you taking the time and sharing your presence with the presences I share with the guests that I bring on every two weeks. And if you have made it till this end, and if you found any value and insights that you think applies to your own life because everyone has different timeline, please share this episode with one friend that you think could also enjoy this type of immersive conversations I have on a weekly basis. See you again on next week's train of Discover More. Thank you for listening.
