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Hip hop is just rooted in great stories, trying to tell great stories and being creative and making do with less. And I feel like that really resonates. All over the world, there's more people who are having that come up story than people who just came from silver spoon, so to speak.
So it's super relatable and probably feels accessible to people. That's why there's so many new up and coming rappers, because it's like, okay, all it took was a mic and a beat. Creativity making something out of nothing.
Thank you for discovering more with us. My name is Benoit Kim, and together we'll be exploring the depth of the human mind. As a psychotherapist, nothing excites me more than finding parallel therapeutic processes or free therapy modalities that can effectively improve one's quality of life.
Okay, maybe Korean barbecue excites me slightly more, but you get the point. Today's conversation with a music influencer will explain why music is the best free therapy and how most people use this music to express and process their feelings day to day. Rashad Armand is a financial analyst, term music influencer, and fashion enthusiast.
Rashad's unique music genre discovery and commentary have gone viral with millions of views on social media, and he gathered more than 70,000 followers. In a few months, expect to learn about why music and mental health are so interconnected, why hip hop is now the number one genre, the power of change, why music helps with depression and anxiety, and much, much more. Welcome to discover more.
You Discover More is a show for independent thinkers by independent thinkers. Rashad, welcome to the show, man. Thanks, Benoit.
Appreciate you having me on. Very excited for today's conversations because I do see a lot of thread lines between music and mental health. So music is one of the three universal languages, in my opinion.
Food, music and love. Why does music speak to you so much? I think music speaks to me so much because you discover so many different perspectives on life. You get a chance to jump into another person's world.
They can take you to a different world. It can make you feel good, it can make you feel all the range of emotions, anger, sadness. I feel like it serves so many purposes, and it's evergreen.
Like a song from your childhood can still be as relevant, something that's just going to be with us forever and can just always transport us to a better place. I find that very relevant because when I work with a lot of my men clients in a psychotherapeutic container, a lot of the Men clients I work with, they have difficulty expressing their emotions, whether it's to be vulnerable or to be honest with how they're truly feeling inside. But when I ask them, can you hand pick a song that represents your feeling, your mood, sad, happy, anger or whatever emotions you talked about? And almost everyone can always identify a song that represents a special place or chapters or sentiments of their life.
Any thoughts there for you? Definitely resonate with that. I'm not the most open person, but I definitely could pick a couple of songs that really could illustrate my darkest mood or my happiest mood. I feel like artists, when they're recording a song, it can really express everything you're feeling and way better than you could, because the studio is probably like a safe space, and a lot of artists can really just freely express with their deepest, darkest thoughts, their happiest thoughts.
And we can relate to them because some of us don't have access to those tell the story that we really connect with. So I'm asking this question because in terms of music and mental health, which is a big through line for today's conversation, rashad, I'm thinking about Kit Cudi and Logic. Okay, so Kit Cuddy's Men on the Moon is my all time favorite album.
I'm still waiting on Men on the Moon three. It's been 15 years. Hopefully he releases it one day.
But if you look at Pursuit of Happiness, for those don't know him very well, the song is very, very cheerful. It's a great party song, but if you really tune into the lyrics, it's dark. And if you look at his context and his history, when he came up with Pursuit of Happiness, he was, I believe, one of the most depressed periods.
He was feeling suicidal. And some of the things he talked about is this constant pursuit of happiness. For what? So I feel like Kid Cudi is a pioneer and many people respect him deeply because I personally believe, and many people share my sentiments, where he was one of the first hip hop artists who really incorporated and introduced vulnerability and authentic storytelling as part of the music and cadences, the rhythms he creates.
And if you look at Logic, 18 Hundreds, the Suicide Hotline, I read a study that that song saved, I think, like hundreds and thousands of teenagers from suicide wow. Because people can feel his pain and his advocacy for suicide prevention. So I'm sharing this because I think he talked about risk taking.
I think sometimes it pays off because I'm sure for Kid Cudi and Logic, it was a risk for them to come up with this new song that didn't fit the mold or the conformity of what the hip hop sounded like. Do you have any thoughts there in terms of what they did and some of the long lasting impact? Do you feel like this sort of authentic and also artistic storytelling has done for the hip hop or music as a whole? Yeah, I definitely feel like there's a level of vulnerability and risk there. Just on a personal level, I could imagine Kid Cudi just feeling like, what are these people going to say? I always had a respect for people who could just walk in a room and tell you everything they're going through.
I feel like it takes a level of bravery and I feel like people respect that. And they felt singing a lot of know, hip hop for the longest time has definitely been a, you know, super bravado. People not really being vulnerable.
And I feel like that's why people like Kid Cudi really cut through and he's looked at as like an icon because he one definitely was heavy on the melody, but he always came with the subject matter and really would tell you what he was going through. And a lot of people resonated with that because it's a lot going on in the world. And I think people need all stories.
We don't just need the super turned up or victory lap all the time. I definitely respect Nipsey also. He had a lot of depth to him, but when I say victory lap, I mean just turned up.
Just celebratory win a club, popping bottles. Like people are going through regular stuff in their life. Somebody lost their job, somebody's going through it in a relationship.
And everybody deserves to be seen. And I think that's why that music connected. People more and more want more relatable music.
They want stories, they want to know you. And the people who are more transparent and vulnerable, they tend to win. I feel like Kid Cudi definitely kicked the door down.
But you had people like Biggie back in the day making that song suicidal thoughts like vulnerability. And look at Biggie. He's known as one of the icons, so that's always been rewarded.
But I definitely think it's super important. Yeah. I didn't mean to interrupt, but Victory Labs, one of my favorite songs from Nipsey.
Not for sure. And of course, he is known for starting brick and mortar stores for black communities. One of the first investors out there.
I mean, rest in power, right? Yeah, for sure. Icon. Yeah.
I love that song, though. Yeah, it's a great song album. And he definitely stood for something.
That's why after he passed away, he just become this mythical person is crazy because Nipsey was trying to make it as a rapper. Get big, get big for years and it's so much chatter, but as soon as you get the people's attention, you get that cosign he wasn't here to see it, but it's like, okay, everybody does see all the things you've been doing for all these years. It was dope.
And sometimes it's just getting the people's attention is so hard. And unfortunately for Nipsey, it took him getting past losing his life to get the people's attention, to get the cosign what he's been doing and building and the mission that he was on all those years was so important. It's just a crazy attention economy that we're in.
Attention economy. Ain't that the truth. So I feel like Nipsey is a great example.
I didn't think we'll talk about Nipsey, but here we are. Since I feel like if you talk about hip hop, you have to recognize the greats. I think he's a perfect epitome of when a great art and stories outlast us.
Because just like great podcasts, great stories, great songs, great piece of art, I think they all outlast the creators of those. So, and this is a vast question, so feel free to take this where you may. Rashad from your point of view and all the genre discoveries and music discovery that you do day to day with your content do you feel like you can recognize the it like the ingredients that really separates songs or genres that really resonate deeply for many, many years to come versus some more short and short lived.
Yeah. I think for me, when I'm listening to a music, the first thing I pay attention to is always the production. So I feel like that's a staple.
Like, in the first couple of seconds of a song, it needs to be something that compels you, something that piques your interest. Storytelling, good songwriting, good hooks and things of that nature are definitely like the long lasting. Good music is just quality people who take their time to people who really are thoughtful.
And you can tell that when you listen to a body of work. I'm big on listening to complete albums. I feel like we're in this playlisting era where you just listen to songs.
I like to hear an artist complete thought. I want to hear it how you intended me to hear it. Because I think I would hope that artist is trying to tell a story with the album, and the way that they sequenced it is important.
So I try to listen to music as it was intended, hoping that I get to hear that story the way that they intended for it to be heard. Shout out to Josh, because he does the same thing when he listens to when he discovered their Japanese jazz and other albums, he starts from the beginning towards the end. Of course, there's time and there's limitations, but I feel like that's a great way to chronologically appreciate the genesis of where the artist started to the final closure.
Because I know that every album is listed for strategically. Exactly. You're not just shoving in different songs for 20 songs into an album.
Exactly. I don't listen to music on shuffle. It's very important.
I feel like good artists really take time to tell that story. The transitions matter. I feel like I want to hear all that.
And you can only listen to that, get that when you listen to an album sequentially in the order that was meant to be listened to. What's the most recent album that you listen? From the top, all the way down? The most recent album I listened I listened to an album from Alphamist. It just came out.
I'm blanking on the name, but it's a jazz album. I think he's a UK artist. I feel like music can tell a story even if there's no lyrics.
Like, you can tell the pacing. It's kind of like that story arc. You start at the bottom, you work your way up to the middle, and then you wind it down.
And I feel like that album that I listened to, the New Alphamus, definitely did that. And very musical. A lot of different instruments and feelings vibes throughout it.
Speaking of vibes, another big question for you, Rashad, so feel free to take this where you may. Again, I want to talk about hip hop as a genre because I think a lot of people don't know this. Rock was started by black people, jazz, blues.
So in terms of the cultural influences, like, African Americans in your community have such a robust and established presence in terms of pioneering and really driving certain genres home. But as rock and all these new genres started, when they first started, it wasn't smooth sailing. There's a lot of resistance, a lot of questions.
I'm sure historically, if you look at a lot of people, a lot of music snobs, mostly white people, they said rock and hip hop is trash. Yeah, they're not musical. Right? Musicality.
The music theory, the cadence, all that. So I want to talk about hip hop very briefly. So if you look at hip hop from a high level, like, 30,000 foot view, what do you think? It really separates itself from other popular mainstream genres, because if I'm not mistaken, I think hip hop is now officially the biggest music genre in the world.
Yes, I think it recently became that maybe within last year or so. So obviously, a lot of people are resonating and more and more and believing in the power of hip hop or rap. I would definitely say authenticity.
I feel like hip hop is rooted in authenticity, especially in the street rap. The artists are supposed to be looked at as if they're doing everything they're saying. And I feel like that really creates another level of connection with the audience.
When you believe the artists, a lot of times it's like that underdog story. A lot of times the hip hop people come from less than stellar backgrounds, and they transformed into these icons. Like A, Jay Z came from the projects, sold drugs, now he's a billionaire.
That's a story that you can buy into forever. It's aspirational and it's real. You can go fact check.
Did he live in Marcy projects? Yes. Is he who he is now? Yes. I feel like that's the main thing that really sticks out as well as just grade A storytelling.
I feel like hip hop is just rooted in great stories, trying to tell great stories and being creative and making do with less. And I feel like that really resonates. All over the world, there's more people who are having that come up story than people who just came from a silver spoon.
So to speak. So it's super relatable and probably feels accessible to people. That's why there's so many new up and coming rappers, because it's like, okay, all it took was a mic and a beat.
Now creativity making something out of nothing. I think relatability is like, name of the game. Because for humans, there's eight billions of us.
And of course, United States is getting more and more polarizing and the political landscape in the US is burning down as we speak. Unfortunately. I think a lot of that is attributable to this lack of connections that we feel.
Everyone's on social media, everything is about sweeping left, sweeping right. But how often do you get to have these in person, one on one conversations for hours. Very rare.
And I feel like the light thing for music without that reliability, it's just bunch of noises. Exactly. That's what music is, right? It's just a bunch of noises that you find enjoyment or not.
And just like, being scientific is important. I'm a social scientist as a psychotherapist, but if you just pack a bunch of facts and like a PowerPoint, facts don't sell. Exactly.
It's the stories. It's how you package it, and how you deliver that package really matters. And that's what I hear from what you just said.
Yeah, I agree. Definitely. The delivery and the person.
Two people can be telling the same story or have the same message, but if the one person is more likable or it depends on the audience, too, like if the audience sees themselves in one person over another, I think they're going to go with the person they relate to or see themselves in. But I feel like that's why hip hop and a lot of genres are becoming more diverse. Even alternative genres are getting more black artists, or rap is getting more white artists because everybody deserves to be seen and everybody there's space for everybody.
So I think that's super important to diversify those genres and let everybody be seen. Yeah, that's what we talked about, diversity of thoughts before we hopped on recording. Right? I have a personal curiosity.
Mumble rap. So as a hip hop rap enthusiast who generally enjoys and appreciates music for the storytelling components in addition to compositions and things like that, what is your honest, unedited view about mumble rap? And yeah, just I'll leave it at that. Anything that gets pushed back or becomes polarizing, I think that's going to be the catapult to the next big thing.
Future is a great example of that. I love future. He's one of my favorite artists and he's become one of the biggest artists in hip hop period.
And they called him a mumble rapper because he was doing something different, but he kicked down the door. He started that style and really got a lot of backlash for it. But the whole new generation of artists, especially street rappers from the inner city, they use auto tune now and they rap a little more.
He was always kind of personal. He's a good example of somebody who kind of like Kid Cudi. A lot of even his biggest, most exciting songs that can have a festival jumping up and down.
They have a dark undertone if you really listen to what he's saying, because it's just that rawness. And I feel like a lot of artists are way more personal. You know, young men from the inner city, they weren't getting on the song telling you their deepest, darkest feelings.
But now you get that vulnerability and I feel like Mumble rap is definitely tied to autotune in a way. But Auto Tune has allowed a lot of people who couldn't sing the ability to harmonize, use melody and really further express their creativity. So I think Mumble rap was a good thing.
I feel like the good artists from the Mumble rap era are still around and it kind of filtered itself out, but it was polarizing and I feel like that's always a good opportunity. If what you're doing is controversial, you're going to kind of cut through. That's an interesting perspective because I feel like you're approaching Mumble Rap as a genre, but not from the actual music aspect.
But you're talking about more from the culture that's associated with the genre. Yeah, I agree what you're saying. I think it was kind of like a subgenre, a new era, and I think it was refreshing.
Controversial, but refreshing. Honestly. I have a soccer dad vibe, so when I feel like a lot of the younger up and coming rappers were in Mumble Rap, part of me is like, oh, I wish they did less face tatoos just for their future.
No, I agree. But everybody, it's just that attention economy. Some people feel like I have to put a bunch of tattoos on my face to get attention and it works.
A lot of times we put a lot of emphasis or give a lot of negativity to these artists. But I feel like a lot of things that we don't like in media or in the world are to blame of the audience. Because if you didn't pay attention to it or you didn't reward it with comments, likes, engagement conversation, podcast, episodes, talking about it, it will go away.
I feel like if you don't like something, ignore it and it'll go away. But instead, people give attention to the things they don't like and it further. If somebody sees an artist with a bunch of face tatoos being the talk of the town, they're going to be like, okay, I'm going to do the same.
Yeah. Attention is the number one commodity of 2023. For sure.
That's interesting, you're saying that a lot of the audiences unknowingly add fuel to the fire. For sure. It creates this phenomenon, but then they're also hating on it even though they have some sort of ownership for creating this phenomenon.
Exactly. That's the biggest thing you as the audience have to be intentional about what you engage in and what you don't. A lot of times we find ourselves hate watching something, hate commenting on it.
But at the end of the day, a lot of these corporations are businesses. They don't care if it was a hate view or not to them, okay, this is working. I'll keep doing it.
I feel like we have to just be intentional about the things that we consume, the things that we talk about, the things that we comment on, and put your energy a lot of times people don't put their energy towards things that they like. And I think that's definitely something that's important. Give positive comments.
As a content creator, I'm sure it's easy to look at that negative comment versus that positive comment. You can read 40 positive comments, but one negative. That's all you think about for rest of the night.
Exactly. It's such a trope. Obviously, it's been said.
And speaking of energy rashad, because you're alluding to the underlying mental health, right? Protecting your energy, protecting your headspace. And I think a lot of us now talk about intaking the proper nutritions for your physical health. But I think a lot of times we don't really pay as much attention or adequate amount of attention towards what we invite to our headspace.
Because I think in that sense, like food for thought or these mental nutritions are equally, if not more important than physical nutritions in many senses. Exactly. So I want to go into your content creations and mental health.
So what did going viral for the first time to kick start your 2023? Because you literally started your year end of January with that viral with the Japanese jazz video. Especially as an introvert who hated being on camera until two years ago because that Japanese jazz definitely put you on the rap. But A, can you recall that virality moment? Because I'm sure that was like, holy crap.
And B, how did you navigate that headspace for the days or weeks to come or anything that you can recall now came back to that end of January time? I will say it was definitely surprising when that particular Japanese jazz reel went viral. I didn't expect anybody to engage with it. But then I just saw you open up the app and you got more notifications than you ever had and it's like, wow, this is actually working.
Just something that you did with no real attachment to the outcome. So it was definitely like validation, though, because I had been creating a lot of content up until that point. And a lot of times you don't really get that.
You get a couple of hundred views, a couple of hundred views, and you just kind of lock it in with yourself, being like, trust the process, keep going, be consistent. And some eventually is going to take, but I feel like there can be a little bit of a trap there because we all have a lot of interest, I'm sure you do as well, where it's like, okay, I made this real about Japanese jazz, but I also like house music. I also like rap, I also like podcasts or working out.
But you can feel like, okay, let me keep this momentum going. And I feel like it's a trap to just keep making reels about Japanese jazz, knowing my interests vary. So I had to make sure that I realized had my mental right to know.
Okay, you're going to make a reel about house music, and it might not do as well, or you're going to make a reel about rap, but it's important that you do that to just show the audience that I'm not a one trick pony. And if you're going to follow me, you should expect variety of things. And I'm not just going to be that one thing.
I feel like that's important when someone goes viral to know, really assess it. If it's not your main thing, I think you should pivot and really get back to that. Or I saw a TikTok of somebody saying that they deleted their viral video, but just because it wasn't in that niche, the niche that they wanted to pursue, because you can get a lot of followers off of a viral video, but they might not engage with the regular type of content you make.
If you make podcasts around mental health, you happen to make a reel in the gym and it goes viral, they might not want to hear your mental health. So it's almost important to get them out of there and just keep grinding with what your main thing is mad respect to that TikTok creator who deleted their viral. I mean, that might sound easy to some people who are listening, but that audacity and balls because they come few and far between.
So that's a testament to sticking to your plan. And I think that's important in life and another dark reality behind a virality platform, which is what TikTok is, because they put more people on viral than any other platforms ever have. But a lot of people don't know this, and you alluded to this many times.
It's a business. YouTube is a business, TikTok is a business. Instagram or Meta is a business.
They have this tendency, and this has been proven where they would put whoever is having high engagements per algorithm. Since algorithm is just encoded people's opinions, that's what algorithm is. It's not this demonic force.
It's just prime data sets exactly based on preferences. They will put a lot of these younger folks, like teenagers or early 20s, they will make them go viral based on the engagement rate, and they would actually deplatform them after a couple of months. So if you go to a lot of these people who went virals with millions of likes and followers for those three months period after that their highest views, like 4000, 6000.
And imagine the not talked about mental health and depressions and the dopamine withdrawal that is a lot of these teenagers and kids, because if you're under 24, you're a kid to me and what they're going through. But then a lot of people, they get caught up in this. I have to be hyperproductive.
I have to produce this seven times a week. Yeah, exactly. But not once, twice every single day.
Because if I don't do that, I'll lose the grace of algorithm. And I sense that what you're saying, too, is if you don't course correct early on, as you get bigger, it's harder and harder to detach. I feel like I'm big on controlling what you can control, and you definitely can't control the algorithm.
So it's no point of you tying yourself worth to an algorithm when they literally can change it at any time. Instagram can be like, we're prioritizing reels, and then you go hard creating seven reels every three days for them to be like, okay, we did too much reels prioritization. We want to get back to post prioritizing pictures.
And it's just like, control what you can control. Play the long game, make sure you're doing it for yourself, have a plan. And I feel like that's the bar that you should compare yourself to versus the algorithm because I already know, especially like you said, for younger kids, it can be.
So I'm sure a lot of people are tying their self worth to their views, their virality, they're getting invites to events and just all that stuff. And I'm sure it could just feel like way worse than what people were going through back in the day as far as depression and all that. Because that dopamine hit is real.
When you get those likes, you start feeling good. Yeah, real good. Yeah.
So you talked about long game and trust the process. So I want to get personal and deep with you for a second. What does trusting the process mean to you? Aside from being the slogan for sixers Go Philly? So what does trust the process mean to you and how do you ensure that you're staying the course per this long game perspective that you really believe in from deep inside? Yeah, trust in the process would be definitely starting with kind of reverse engineering your goals and making a plan and really thinking it through and just stick to that plan.
Really having a strong why and reverse engineering, that why. But also at the same time, I feel like you can't be too rigid. You got to know that things you have to be willing to change, make pivots change if needed.
Make sure I am the person I think I am if I think I'm hardworking and I'm working towards my goal. Really take a second to think, am I actually, though, did you do X, Y and Z? And if you're not, make sure. You get back on track.
So I think trusting the process is just comparing yourself to yourself, having that plan, reverse engineering it and just sticking to it and not quitting. That's the main thing. Just don't quit.
Pivot take a break, but don't quit. Just keep at it. So you're talking about being critical of your thoughts and being critical of your way of thinking.
I know you're very introspective because you're introvert. And I do feel like we live in a world of extroversions where extroverted people get recognized more easily because they're often the loudest person in the room. I'm talking about myself.
But I do feel like a lot of introverts do have that superpower of deep introversions. And for them to sort of be just rooted in themselves without the need of deriving energies or lifers from other people, it's not good or bad. I'm not comparing.
They just have different strengths, for sure. So for you, do you have any practices or how do you really go deep within and trying to be critical of your own voices, your own thoughts? Because I feel like all of us need a space or plan to pause and reflect and examine the archives of our behaviors and patterns. But so many people are just in this hustle go go mode, and they don't really pause until external events like pandemic or midlife crisis or getting laid off.
So how do you ensure that you pause before these externalities happen? Man, that's a good question. I think I really try to assess all of my thoughts. I definitely tend to be a bit maybe it's my introversion, being a deep thinker, being critical so I can be super negative.
But I really try to assess those negative thoughts and realize, do I believe it? Is it true or is it not? So I think that's something you have to do almost. I do it on almost a thought by thought. It's like an all day thing, especially when I catch myself doing negative self talk or something to that effect.
I really have to be like, okay, I had this thought. Is it true, yes or no? And choose whether I indulge in it or not. Most of the time I'm going to say no, assess my thoughts and make sure I'm not falling into any negative self talk.
I also try to do a morning routine where I don't try to run to my phone. I try to start with my mantra, my Affirmations, read a little bit of daily stoic and think about my day, think about what I've been doing. I feel like it's important to just be aware and take that time when you can.
It doesn't have to be some big dramatic a whole day. It can be throughout your day, or it can be 30 minutes in the morning and take that big picture, look at yourself. So you're saying you don't have to take a 30 day retreat sitting on a mountaintop and live a hermit life? No, it can be at the stoplight.
Quite literally, for sure. I do it. I think it's an ongoing thing, man.
You can't believe all your thoughts. That's something that I had to realize early on. Every thought that pops into my mind isn't true.
You can't get caught up in a rap race. You got to kind of take a little break. Easier said than done.
I know I'm making it seem like I do it all the time, but I definitely fall into the trap of just being tunnel vision. But it's always in the back of my mind. And when I'm starting to feel a little down or feeling a little negative, I'm like, okay, you're not doing those things.
You're not taking that time. So it's important for sure. You're speaking to the ethos of CBT, cognitive Behavior Therapy, which is one of the most widely used evidence based therapeutic modality.
And the ethos of CBT basically states that our core beliefs influence our thought contents, and our thought contents therefore shape our behaviors, which in turn influence our realities. So that's what you talked about. We don't have control of thoughts, and not everything we think about is reality.
Like the idea that perception is reality, that's not true because our perceptions are often distorted. So I want to probe you a little bit further. You said that you realized early on that you can't believe everything your thought says.
Can you share anything that came up? And how did you reconcile with this truth? Because what is truth is truth. But it's not always easy for us to sort of accept that truth because a lot of truth can be harsh. One of the first times where I really had to deal with mental health was it was when I first started college.
After graduating high school, I went to this school, Indiana University of PA. The weekend before classes started, I had to total withdraw and move back home because the student loans couldn't qualify. So I had to really go back to the environment that I didn't like.
And that was also had to deal with feeling like I'm not going to be anything in life because I'm not in school. Like, what's going to happen? Really went into a lot of negative thinking, feeling like I'm not going to be anything in life. My life sucks.
All this super negative thoughts really just hit rock bottom with that. Every day you have a dark cloud over you. So I just hit that point where I'm like, no, I think I just Googled a thought that I had and started coming up on some mental health literature and things of that nature to really start realizing, okay, I don't have to relieve all my thoughts.
Like realizing that just because I'm in a negative circumstance now, that's not going to dictate the rest of my life. And really just realizing, okay, depression is a thing and you might have to go talk to someone. You have to get out of your silo, get out of your little cocoon of your negative thoughts and really express how you're feeling so you can get some perspective from other people.
Make a choice that I wanted to be better. There is a field called choice theory in psychology, psychotherapy, where it talks about the only choices we have in this world is the choice to make a decision. And sounds like you internalize this dark cloud depressions and you sort of internalize it into responsibility, that you know what, I'm going to take ownership of my life by googling what that means.
But that also speaks to your curiosity, because not everyone would have done what you did with your similar circumstances. I Google everything, so I feel like there's so many resources out there, especially when I think that's something that a lot of people could take advantage of. I never had an in real life mentor, but I've gotten so many mentors through watching interviews and just through online people I've never met.
There's just so much free information out there that we could garner through listening to a podcast like this. So I think I've always just had that desire to be great and accomplish my goals and realizing that perspective is a very invaluable thing and it's a lot of knowledge and perspective out there that we can seek if we take the effort to look into it or try to find it. Speaking of listening to podcasts, if you're enjoying this so far, press the thumbs up on YouTube.
So I want to talk about mentors, whether these are real mentors or not, since I talk about this idea that by reading, you're befriending the greatest thinkers that died. So in a sense, you're friends with a lot of dead people. So do you have a certain person or mentor that you try to emulate, whether from the hip hop or fashion industries or just life overall? And why is this particular person you try to emulate from? Man, I have a few.
I feel like I definitely like Kevin Hart. Comedians just really have to grind for so many years. I like people who really had to work for what they got.
I mean, I don't have a problem if somebody got it easy, but I feel like that's more realistic of I've been working for ten years before I got my big break. I had to go through ups and downs. I came from a small city, he came from Philadelphia and tried things, failed, just kept going.
I feel like he worked super A. You can look at a story, he's on a movie set. 2 hours later he's in a gym.
Two, 3 hours later he's back on another movie set. And when you see somebody who's doing that good, working super hard, it motivates you as well to get on it, because time is finite. We don't get this time back, so we have to maximize it.
Also like somebody like Virgil Abloh, I feel like know, recently passed away. He did so much while dealing with such a heavy burden with his cancer and you would have never known it, he was so happy. So he had this mission of giving back, giving information, putting people on and sharing his platform.
So I definitely resonated with that as well. Those are two that I can think of. I mean, off white and he changed the industry forever.
Yeah, for sure. And also like The Rock and Kevin Hart because they exploded in the last three years and they filmed like nine movies in a year. And if you think about the work goes behind that, I'm sure they were on the road probably like 350 days out of the year.
Yes, exactly. And then you got somebody like Kevin Hart who's still doing comedy tours. I have a lot of respect for comedians because literally just getting on the stage in front of a bunch of people with the intent know, being funny is super hard.
So some people really maxing it out. And I feel like I'm a person who likes to I like to see it. I'm like, okay, this is a real person who's really giving it all they have right now.
I can do the same. So I think it's very good to see people doing high level things. And also with Kevin Hart, I don't know how many people remember, but he got into a life altering, near death car accident.
But he broke his back about two years ago, I think, out here. Yeah, and he barely survived. Exactly.
And I bring that up because there is this idea called antifragility. So we talk about the resilience. Resilience is basically through hardships.
You internalize that growth and you get better and you sort of rebound back to where you were. That's resilience. The level higher than resilience is anti fragility.
What that means is you're not just reverting back to the baseline of where you were, your new capacity is actually greater than once were, and that's anti fragility. And I feel like Kevin Hart is the epitome of that, where he came back stronger, more humble, more gracious and more determined after his life altering back injury that almost killed him. And he made a huge speech about that.
He was very emotional and I think he really got attuned with his own needs, physical needs, mental health, and he spoke a lot about that. And of course, he has a huge presence with fitness and just health overall, of course. Philadelphia one of the greats.
So back to you, Rashad, if you were to revisit some memory lanes of your upbringings, going to Temple, Philadelphia before that or in La in the last six years, since Los Angeles can be a very lonely city, even though we have 3.5 million population. Can you think about any moments that you feel like that sort of contributed to you.
You becoming this more antifragile new versions of yourself that you navigate day to day. I think I learned that I'm resilient. Like, there's definitely been ups and downs here.
I moved out here, didn't have a job. I definitely was raised on stability, make sure you're good versus that risk taker type of mentality. You go all the way to zero, your bank account goes to zero.
You can get it back as long as you don't quit. It's not the end of the world. Learning that you can go through hard things and come out better on the other side or not, or just learning that you can pivot.
I've learned that about myself, learned that I can identify like I identify as an introvert, but I know I'm able to tell when being an introvert isn't serving me, that I need to be a little more extroverted. If I say I'm not a people person or something, I'm not going to be a people person. If I say I'm not a creative, I'm not going to be a creative.
But the things you label yourself as are super important. And that's all things that I've learned through being out here, meeting all these creative people, meeting all people from different walks of life. It's like you can live the life that you create for yourself, whatever you want to be, but you have to believe it, and you have to identify as that and not put that negative self talk or self limiting beliefs on it.
So many people forget that we are the authors and the creators of our own realities. And I talk about this, some of my clients too, where I'm Christian, I'm both religious and spiritual. So I'm not happy about this 50% divorce rate in America, but if you look at lifetime divorce rate, it's actually 60%.
If you've been divorced once, if you get married again, the divorce rate goes up to 75% because you already know a way out. You already had Exodus, so why not do it again? But my point being is that that 50% divorce rate implies that as of now, every second, every day, there's new couples are deciding to reinvent their lives. And I find that very empowering in a sense.
Not about the divorce piece, but the fact that people are constantly trying to seek discomfort and reinvent their own realities into the new one that fits their reality better. So I'm sharing that because I want to ask about other aspects of your life because I think it's all about reinventions. But you talked about, like, you pivoted quite a few times, and I think change I used to say change is hard.
I've reframed that to change is effortful. Okay? Because I really believe that all worthy things in life requires great effort. And great effort usually means it's worthy to tackle whatever that means.
What has all these pivots and ups and downs in life taught you about change? It taught me that change should always be embraced. I feel like it's not a bad thing. It's something that you should not hate.
I think you should be aware when you're in a period of change. I feel like I'm personally in a period of change right now and it's easy to say all this is good, it's good, it's good. But sometimes when you're in it, it kind of sucks.
And you have to realize that discomfort is a good thing. As long as you thought about where you want to go, you kind of have a plan and you're sticking to it. Play the long game and know that you're becoming better, that change, pressure, all that stuff is a privilege.
And you're going to look back on the period of life that you're in right now and be like, man, it's going to work out. And you're going to look back like, man, remember that time I was just doing this, this and this, and look back on it like, that's the stuff that got me there. So I think change is a great thing and it should be embraced.
And you should realize that you don't have to stay as the person that your parents or your friends as a kid told you you were. You're this type of person at any time and embrace the newness of it, the uncomfortableness, just embrace it. I love when you said that change is a privilege, because if you're facing a certain crossroads or dilemmas in life, what that means is there's new possibilities at bay.
And to even go through a certain change, regardless of the circumstances, it means you're alive and you probably have the capacity to go through that change, which a lot of people don't have. So I just want to highlight that. No, for sure.
I think change is important and it's pressure, but it's a privilege. And we become better when we're not in our comfort zone. So it should definitely be embraced.
I try to, but it's going to be hard sometimes. You're going to be like, man, I wish my life was easy on autopilot like it was a few months ago. But that's not how it works.
You got to know. Yeah, it's very synchronistic because as we caught up briefly before recording is, I'm also going through stages of reevaluations, recalibrations and change with podcasting because so much has happened in the last three months and I think I need to sort of slow down and really re anchor myself and to reconfigure. Why am I doing this? With almost three and a half years, four years into podcasting? So I resonate that very deeply, where when you're in it a lot of headache, a lot of overthinking, a lot of stress, good stress or otherwise.
But I'm trying to remind myself that it's not that serious and I just need to see the course, be intentional, be consistent, slow down a bit through mindfulness, but yeah, I appreciate you sharing that. Yeah, exactly. And I feel like when you're embracing change and kind of slowing down, like what you just described, you have to be okay with kind of taking a step back.
Like maybe your views will go down a little bit, or maybe if you're changing in your career, you might have to take less money for a while and you have to be okay with that. Sometimes you really got to take that step back and realize that it's all going to balance itself out in a long game, but you got to be willing to kind of take that L on a short game to really make those ten steps forward. You might lose the fight, but you'll win the war.
Yeah, I feel Long Game will definitely be a keyword for this episode, but I also subscribe to long game. So with that as a segue, I want to ask you about the thread lines between music and fashion because in a sense, you can argue that fashion is also universal language. I think less so than music because case in point, I love music, but I don't care for fashion.
And of course, there's whole fast fashion sustainability, and of course a lot of the fashions comes back and reemerge historically. So do you see any threat lines between your two creative identities for fashion and also music? Yeah, for sure. I think fashion and music go hand in hand, especially with hip hop.
I feel like so much of one of the biggest important parts of an artist's brand is how they dress. That's why these teams have stylists and makeup and all that stuff, because it's just a nonverbal way to express your personality, and it can really people are vain, so they judge you off of what they see. So if you present yourself in a good manner, you have a way better chance of resonating with them than if you were to not put any effort in.
But for me, I think it's definitely hand in hand because content is a visual platform. I think it's a way to express my personality nonverbally while I'm actually verbally expressing whatever I'm trying to articulate in a particular video. Even though I have it separate.
I feel like even in my music content, I'm still trying to make sure I put a decent outfit on that kind of expresses that can kind of nonverbally signal, okay, he's in the fashion. Or maybe that can be the reason somebody always look for reasons somebody could engage in your content, whether it's something in the background, a particular shirt, a particular hat, you never know what's going to be the reason somebody engages in your content. So it's just another opportunity to get the people's attention and kind of bring people into you a little bit.
That was the warm up question. I have a heavy hitter question for you because you talked about fashion and music, where music is more free form, there's a wider range in a sense, and higher accessibility, which I also agree, and fashion serves a similar vehicle. Right.
At the same time, I think there could be a slippery slope where some people may confine or connect their self worth and how good they feel with the type of fit or fashion outfit they have for the day. Like a concrete example I can think about is a biometrics, like whoop or aura ring, okay, where they tell you about your HvR heart variation rates and it tells you about your sleep recovery rate. So a lot of athletes, they will check out their stats in the morning, and some athletes, they will see, oh, I have 96% recovery rate, I'm going to have a great day.
But conversely, they might see I have a 45% recovery rate. The diets, a lot of stress, didn't really get good sleep. And in a way, they will predetermine their day because they associate how day is going to be based on their stats.
That makes sense. So connecting that with fashion. I'm not fashionable, so I don't know if this is even a thing.
But from my perspective, I feel like based on the type of fit you have, or if you don't have a certain fit that you really want to authentically express who you are for that day, I feel like it could also go to the other way. Why it actually negatively impacts A. Does that question make sense? And B, do you have any thoughts there? Yeah, it definitely makes sense.
I feel like feeling better. I feel better if I have on a good outfit, and if I feel dusty, I don't feel as good. It's definitely true.
But at the same time, I think it's just trying your best. I feel like even with my content, I try not to let that stuff be the determinant of whether I post. I tend to be a bit of an overthinker, and I could feel like I know people who feel like I don't have a nice outfit, so I'm not going to post.
I think people should just try their best on a daily basis, and however you present yourself is the best you could do and just be okay with that. Whether or not you have the flyest, maybe all your good clothes were dirty, feel good in the best you could do for the day, and just put your best foot forward and realize that you aren't determined, you're not a less valuable person because you don't have your best outfit on a certain day. The good thing about content and this media space we're in, we're getting so much diversity in the people who are gaining popularity that you can see like, okay, I don't have to be.
I feel like back in the day you had to be a super attractive, tall, handsome, everybody's beautiful in their own right, but you get a lot of different forms of delivery and you can see, okay, I can do know. And I feel like that's important. Just it's about you, about the story you want to tell, the value you want to add the core, like your intentions versus how you dress it up.
Yeah. My fiance, my partner, Becky, she likes to dress up a lot. And she always says that she's dressing up for herself.
And I do believe her. But I don't know. When I think about fashion, I just think about how often are people dressing up for themselves versus for other people's to see.
Since vanity metrics, whether you subscribe it or not, it's always a part of it's a force I think everyone has to grapple with, especially in 2023, the social proof era. But as you think about a lot, where are you really dressing for yourself? Because that's a vehicle for you to express who you are. Are you truly dressing for the validations? Of course answer could be both.
But that's something I'm thinking a lot. No, for sure. I think a lot of people are not doing things for themselves.
I feel know when you're trying to pursue a goal or pursue something in life, I feel like you kind of have to play the game. I feel like that's something I realized. Like, okay, I moved to California.
California, los Angeles specifically is a vain place. If I want to play this game, I might have to play the part. Like data that can prove that people, if they find you attractive or something, you might get more opportunities.
So I feel like even if you didn't want to put any effort into what you look like, you don't really care. But if you're trying to succeed, sometimes you got to play the game. And I feel like a lot of people are playing a game.
A lot of people wouldn't be doing a lot of stuff if it wasn't for external validation. Yeah, if I had a choice, I would go everywhere with my flip flops when the weather is nice. But obviously and I learned this from some of my real estate friends because that's part of their selling point where you have to drive a nice car, you have to wear suits since you're dealing with people's life savings and assets.
Exactly. And they taught me that when you go to a fine dining or, like, a nice venue or restaurants, they look at your shoes and your watch and it's, like, so stupid, but at the same because the person in the flip flops with apple watch on or no watch in a dusty shirt could be more successful than the person who is playing that role. But it's just about understanding the game and playing how if that can get you the table versus not, you might as well play into it ain't going to hurt you unless you are not being financially responsible.
A lot of people are just overextending themselves to play that role, which isn't good playing the front, or unless you're Steve Jobs, you're so mainstream that you can popularize turtlenecks and beaters white sneaker tennis shoes. I feel like if you're a one percenter, if you're elite or something, you can get away with a lot of stuff. But you got to be aware if you're a one percenter or not, if you're doing something super great.
Yeah, like Alex Hormosi bring his truck hat and flannel. What? But he runs $150,000,000 business. Exactly.
You got to do something great. You can get away with it. So, yeah, let's talk a little bit more about mental health.
So I view mental health since I think it's important to redefine and contextualize since so many words are hijacked and now, like, spirituality is a marketplace. Holistic health is just another term that a lot of coaches throw them around. So I personally view mental health as a knowing of none of us walk this path of life alone, even though sometimes the dark clouds you talked about, and sometimes it feels like we're stuck in this bottomless pit from Dark Night Rises, dark Knight Rises reference.
But no matter how dark and lonely you may feel, we're seldomly walking this path alone. There's people cheering on. A lot of them are quietly, especially for men.
But I think a lot of us are loved and appreciated by more people than we sometimes feel. So we talked about music and fashion share similar values, right. So from your perspective, for people who are maybe struggling with mental health or people who are grappling with this loneliness, social isolations, whatever other language you want to slap on, how would you say that they can sort of lean on music or fashions, whatever vehicles you've been talking about.
When they feel like they don't really have real people porturing them on. How can they utilize music or fashion as alternative booster? Man I feel like you can definitely find an artist who is talking about exactly what you're going through or talking about a more positive place in their lives that you can kind of transport into their world and just get that pick me up. I feel like sometimes you got to kind of disconnect from your reality.
You kind of kind of have to be delusional at times because sometimes the thing that you're going through in your life is real. Sometimes you're in a bad position because some bad things happen. And it's true you might not be in a good place, but sometimes that little escapism can be the thing that gets you through the day.
And whether it's through getting up every morning and getting dressed, taking a shower, taking care of yourself and putting on a nice outfit, even if you can't leave your house, that can be a little bit of dopamine that you need to get through the day. So I think it's definitely a vehicle that can. Be used to kind of get you out of a dark place and through social media as well.
You'll be surprised how many people are interested in the same things that you are. So if you like clothes, you can start making a post about clothes. The next thing you know, you might attract a community of like minded people and you can kind of make those connections through online, bring them to real life.
So I think that's something that I definitely did through my content. One of my main intentions was to connect with like minded people. And that's definitely something that has happened.
I've been meeting more people who have similar interests and making those connections in real life. And it just started for me being like, okay, I need more friends. I think social connection is important.
I didn't see I definitely grew up not caring about that stuff, being introvert, being wary of people. But I'm like as an adult, I'm like it's so much data that shows I listened to a podcast and they were saying loneliness is detrimental as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. And I'm like, that really hit me.
I'm like, I like to be a health buff, but I'm like, this is really negative towards my health. So I make an effort to share your interests. And you can attract a community, and you have to also take action when you do attract that community.
You have to get out your comfort zone. So I think fashion and music are two things that can help you escape, help you feel like you're not alone, like you said, as well as they can be a community builder for you. According to research based on the level of loneliness or social isolations you're dealing with, you can actually predict your future health outcome.
Higher the cancer rates, heart disease, insomnia, depressions, mental health challenges, and so on. And that's especially, even more prevalent for more advanced age, like elders, older people, because it gets harder and harder. And that's why I asked about Los Angeles being a lonely city, since I've been interviewing a lot of La influencers and public figures, and every single one of them echo this where La is a lonely city.
It really is. And to your point, that's why we need to take the ownership, since we are responsible for our lives, no matter good, bad or ugly. And we have to make the ownership to create more effort, because the impact of social isolations or loneliness is very insidious.
You may not feel it on day one, but over time you're like, holy crap. Yeah, I want to vent, talk to some people. They're busy.
I have no one to talk to. And you're stuck in this darkness. Yeah.
I think it's normal to be going through something. It's normal to have a setback. But if you're just in the house by yourself, it could be the worst thing in the world.
And sometimes all you need is that one conversation, that loneliness. I didn't realize how much of a health impact it had and I feel like if that was communicated more, people would definitely take more action. It's very powerful because we're talking about loneliness and mental health and depressions.
But the very platform you created through intentionality mindfulness and this authentic love towards music is the very force that is acting as this bridge and this force that dissipates a lot of the loneliness that so many people are experiencing. Because the number one issue that comes up in my clinical work is superficiality. So many people, no matter who you are, I think we're all dealing with the rise of superficial friendships and relationships.
That's why I feel so grateful. And I don't say this as a platitude. It's a deep privilege and honor for me to not just with you, anyone who says yes or reaches out and we're able to be in this immersive and intimate space by having this one on one conversations.
Nothing else, just us and our stories. And in that sense, I feel like your storytelling through music and fashion is a very force that so many people need and sounds like you're bringing that light to so many people. Because I've checked out your comment sections.
You have some very engaging audiences. They recommend bunch of things for you to check out. They name drop bunch of different references from all the greats or from very esoteric or niche areas you've never heard before and I've never heard before.
But they're taking the time to not just share validations, but they contribute to your content creations. And I find that I think that's the most meaningful milestone that a lot of, if not all, content creators should strive for. Because that's a human to human validation and it's a really cool dopamine release.
Yeah, exactly. I agree. I feel like that's the most important thing.
If you're making connections with the people, then you're going to be good. Even if you're not getting the brand deals, you're not getting whatever you deem as the reward from your content if you're connecting with the people, because that's the most important thing. All these brands and companies want people who have a community and a connection.
So if you can really connect with people and add value, that's my main thing. I'm trying to add value every time I give somebody something to bring them a little happiness every day. So I feel like when you have pure intentions and really can make that connection with the people, everything else is going to follow.
And if that's the only thing that comes, I think you succeeded. It's the idea that thousand true fans and not to talk about creator economy since it's not relatable to most people, but a lot of people. Don't forget there's a quote saying niches get riches.
I don't know if you heard that before, but a lot of smaller air quotes, smaller sized content creators are making lucrative income versus a lot of a lot bigger people who have with more superficial engagements. Exactly. And like, having thousand true fans outweigh, having 100,000 superficial fans, I think any day.
Yeah, I agree. I think you can't get caught up in that superficial numbers just for the sake of having numbers. Less is more and really making that connection with the people.
Like you said, talking to a real person and having a real conversation, allowing them to feel seen as well, might have took a lot for somebody to message a random stranger because you don't know how they might look at you. Like, wow, you have this podcast. I put you on a pedestal.
So for you to respond to them and have a conversation is definitely the most important thing and not that superficial. All that other stuff that we strive for. Yeah.
Deep, deep gratitude for all the people we're both engaging day in and out. So with today's conversations, I want to start a new Hallmark questions. I like for you to be the first guest to engage in.
No pressure, though. I used to ask the questions in my older days, like a year out, I would ask, what's a domain in your life you want to or you feel more inspired to discover more about playing words with the name of the podcast. Right, because discover More, it's a verb.
It implies actions and curiosity and initiative. So I want to tweak that questions back to you. Where what's something that you want to encourage the audiences to discover more about after hearing this conversation with you today, man, I would encourage the audience to discover more about the labels that we put on ourselves and realizing that you don't have to be something that you maybe thought you were your whole life.
You can always kind of pivot if something, a label that you put on yourself isn't serving you anymore. And you can change. And you can discover the way you think about yourself, the way that you talk to yourself on a daily basis, on an hour to hour basis, and realize that you're not a victim to your thoughts, not a victim to being labeled something from your childhood.
You can always pivot and make change to better yourself, discover more who you really are and your capacity for sure. That's a good way to put it. Hey, I'm a podcaster, so I got to do something.
Well, Rashad, here is where I want to roll out the metaphorical red carpet before you. You're wearing a beautiful red flower, very thematic. Where can people check out your contents, the different music genres you recommend, anywhere from Japanese jazz to alternative hip hop.
And where can people connect with you but not just follow you, but actually engage in trying to cultivate or further cultivate meaningful relationships that hopefully outlast the transactional nature that a lot of us are grappling with? In 2023. Yeah, I would definitely say my Instagram is at R-A-S-H-A-D-A-R-M-A-N-I definitely reply to messages and things, so feel free to shoot me a message. I'm definitely down to communicate with anybody.
TikTok, is it's? I-T-S-R-A-S-H-A-D-A-R-M-A-N. Those are definitely the two main platforms. And I'm definitely down to talk to whoever.
Yeah, and as you can tell, wherever you're watching, he's got great fit on, so you can always get your daily Inspo from his fit of the days. I appreciate you, Ben Wild, for having me on the platform, sharing your audience and allowing me to be a little more vulnerable than I get to be on Instagram and all of that. So I appreciate it.
And grateful for your audience and your podcast episodes. I've listened to them. You definitely add a lot of value, so appreciate that.
I hope so. I hope so. But, yeah, thank you for being on today.
No, no problem. Thanks for having me and as always, hope to tune in to next week's train of Discover More. Thank you for tuning.
