#138. Paul Hutchinson: The Dark Reality Behind Child Sex Trafficking

Please advise that this episode contains some very grotesque and disturbing conversation points. At the same time, I urge you to listen through, because this is probably one of the most important conversations I've spotlighted this year alone. The head trafficker down here has a piece of property he wants to develop into a child brothel sex resort.

He needs a few million dollars to build it out. And you can negotiate that? I can't teach my Navy Seals how to negotiate that deal. And I got super emotional realizing, wow, the skills that I have can be used more than just making more money and making more friends.

They can be used to help pull a child out of slavery, out of hell. My name is Benoit Kim, and together we will be exploring the depth of the human mind. I started this podcast four years ago to elevate the stories that need elevated the most.

Today's conversation is just that to spotlight probably one of the most gruesome yet important topics in the world how to stop child sex trafficking from our very household and neighborhoods. Paul Hutchinson is a retired cofounder of Bridge Investment Group with over $48 billion in assets under management. Worldrenowned philanthropist, founder of Child Liberation Foundation, and the executive producer of the movie Sound of Freedom.

In 2017, Paul officially retired from his billion dollar hedge fund club to starting his nonprofit organization to combat the evil forces of modern slavery and human trafficking. Before his official retirement, Paul spent ten years leading over 70 undercover missions in 15 countries to identify and take down child trafficking rings. Expect to learn about the dark reality behind child sex trafficking ring, how power corrupts good people, why Jeffrey Epstein is not the last of his kind.

And what can we do as a society to combat these truly evil forces? Before the episode, here is the sponsor of the week. Hi, I'm David Freudberg, host of the Humankind on Public Radio podcast. Each week, we tell stories of people holding on to their humanity amid great challenges, like how climate change has affected lives in Northern California.

I've definitely not given up hope, but I do think that this is a moment that's calling upon us to respond. And we can choose to keep going, to kind of have our blinders on and to not change, or we can take the courage to be the immune system of the planet and for each other at this time. And we hear from a wheelchair user in Pittsburgh who had studied mechanical engineering in college.

After having the spinal cord injury, it was actually my doctor who said, have you ever considered rehab engineering? And I didn't even know that was a thing. So that's why I ended up here. We aim for the highest part of people, and their stories will uplift you.

Please join us for the Humankind on Public Radio Podcast. And now please enjoy this powerfully, thought provoking conversation with the one and only Paul Hutchinson. Discover More.

Discover More is a show for independent thinkers, by independent thinkers. If there were a modern Batman Paul's, probably it, except without a $300,000 Batsuit. Yes, I googled how much Batman's actual batsuit would cost if it were real.

Paul welcome to discover more. Thank you, Benoit. Honored to be here with you and with your guests.

I want to begin by thank you for rescuing 50 children from their doomed reality of being sex trafficked a while ago. So can we start there by portraying a picture with whatever you want to share with the audiences? What you're referring to is what was portrayed in the Sound of Freedom movie. That was my first experience in seeing this darkness.

Firsthand, I had received a phone call from our Attorney General, who introduced me to a Homeland Security agent portrayed by Jim Caviecel in the movie. And he had identified some children in Latin America and Colombia and wanted to have my help, not only financially, but physically, being there to play the role of a wealthy playboy who was interested in helping to build a sex hotel, a brothel for children, just like what is portrayed in the film. And in real life that happened, there was a lot of things in the film that were put in as extra drama and whatnot.

We actually took eight different rescue missions and took different stories from them and weaved them into the film. And a lot of unsung heroes, a lot of unsung heroes were put them into just a few characters. But in the movie, Jim Caviso says to my character, Pablo, he said, he gives my driver this picture and that kind of makes me have that commitment.

In real life, I was already there. I was face to face with these traffickers. And the trafficker hands me this phone and he says, this is Princess.

She's still a virgin. And started talking about these horrific things I could do to this child and that galvanized my commitment to eradicate child trafficking, how they were talking about these children like they're commodities. And then what really made it for me in terms of my personal commitment was two weeks later when they had arranged this party and the traffickers bring her and three other virgins scared to death.

One little boy, three little girls. This little boy was eleven. They gave him cocaine because he was so scared.

What kind of effed up monster thinks that's attractive? And I'm sitting on this chair just like I am here. And this child, this little girl standing up was no taller than I was as I was sitting down, and she was shaking, and I could see that she had been crying. We heard her crying before they even brought her out.

And her makeup had been smeared with the tears. And she was looking at me like I was this evil person that was going to take her innocence from her and everything in me wanted, just say no. That is not going to happen.

You're going to be fine. You're going to see your parents again. And I made a commitment at that moment of my life to myself, to God, to the universe, to that child, that I would do everything in my power, everything.

I would dedicate my life to eradicating child trafficking and now to truly to liberating humanity. And that's what I did for the next ten years. I donated time and money.

I led or played a key part in over 70 undercover rescue missions in 15 countries. And these experiences and my personal transformation could help more people than just doing the undercover work. There's.

Great. Navy Seals, Green Berets that can continue doing that. So that's what brings us to this point where I'm okay being public and having my face and my voice shown as a psychotherapist.

Paul, I've always been fascinated by the relationship between our internal psyche and how that externalizes externally. So for you, Paul, when the Homeland Security agent came to you saying, paul, we could use your talents, we could use your ability, we can use your capacity, what were some of the internal landscape that you were dealing with at that moment and moving forward? I realized a lot of things in my life up to that time that didn't make sense, began to make sense. The fact that I had this lifestyle.

I had nice cars and a nice house and big parties. But it was that energy that the traffickers were looking for. It was the Jeffrey Epstein's of the world.

It was big egos and big checkbooks that were funding these kind of parties and these activities. And the fact that I had had experience for so long in real estate transactions. And he said, Paul, he said, the head trafficker, when I said, Why me? He said, Well, I know about your background.

I know you could handle yourself in a dangerous place. But he said, the head trafficker down here has a piece of property he wants to develop into a child brothel sex resort. He needs a few million dollars to build it out.

And you can negotiate that. I can't teach my Navy Seals how to negotiate that deal. And I got super emotional realizing, wow, the skills that I have can be used more than just making more money and making more friends.

They can be used to help pull a child out of slavery, out of I said, Absolutely. You know, one thing in the movie where he tried to convince Pablo to, hey, you know, and Pablo said, no. And he thought about it for a while.

I didn't think about was it it was almost immediate. In fact, so much so that my business partner was concerned, the one that was there and heard the conversation, he called my other business partner, John, the co founder of the fund, with me. And John called me back and he said, Paul, I just heard about what you committed to and going to Columbia with these kids.

He said, have you thought this through? He said, you're set, you could sell out today, you could buy an island, you could be happy the rest of your life. And I said, John, would I really be happy if I bought an island, if I bought a yacht? I said, If I was doing something else dangerous tomorrow, if I was climbing Everest, you and I would have the same conversation. He goes, yeah, we probably would.

I said, When I'm 95 years old and I look back on my life and I say, I built multibillion dollar company and I climbed this mountain and I helped in some way of rescuing this many children from slavery, from hell, which of them really matters? And he said, you're right, Paul. If you've got the skills they need, then I see it. So that was a transformational time in my life, for sure.

I feel like I have so many clients who have high social position, stature, wealth, accolades, honorifics. But to me, Paul, I feel like some of the biggest sadness in life is when you climb up the mountain and you finally get that peak view just to realize it's the wrong mountain that you've been climbing all along. So when you heard that proposition over the call, and when John came to, like, how did you approach that calculated risk or regrets? Or were those not even part of your internal landscape and you were just overtaken by this catalyzing visceral saying that this is my calling and this is only someone like me.

Given my real estate background, given my billion dollar capacity, given my ability to be in this potentially life and death situations. I've done stupid things before that put my life in danger, but they didn't have the meaning. Riding that motorcycle on that cliff, that was not smart.

Whatever. There was a lot of things I looked back on that I thought, well, I must have had some divine intervention that I'm still alive today. And this was different.

This was different. I knew there was risk now. I didn't know how much risk until I was actually know.

On the surface, I thought, oh, this sounds know I'll go to Columbia, whatever else. The first day I got to Columbia, the very first, I mean, two days later, because he said, can you be in Columbia in two days? There was no time to prepare, and he wanted me to come down as this wealthy potential buyer. So I already had a really nice custom suit.

I already had a Gucci bag. I already had my $50,000 watch because I was at a conference, I was raising money for the fund. I was connecting with these billionaire guys there, right? And so I already had this stuff.

I'm like, oh, I can just pack a bag and fly straight there from here. I was in Atlanta, Georgia, and I landed in Bogota, and there was a transfer of the plane that got delayed. I had to grab a taxi.

Now I am dressed like a target, right? And at the time, you could pay somebody $25 to kill somebody. So your life is really worth $25 in Bogota. If I looked like I was worth more than $25 for sure, and I had $500 cufflinks on, right? And I get in this taxi and tell him, Take me to the Marriott.

He passes the Marriott. I'm like, right there. He passes the next exit.

I'm like, Marriott Aquay. And he pulls off into this really dark neighborhood, and there's this hotel, and there's prostitutes, and there's drug dealers, and there's these big thugs that are up against the wall. And he says, Hotel.

Hotel, and have me get out. I knew I would get mugged. I would get beat up for sure if I got out of that taxi.

I thought maybe John was know, have you thought through, you know, I was able to get out of that situation. I had this actual badge that I was given by the I was an honorary colonel for the Unified Police Department. I pulled out this honorary colonel badge, and I'm like, Marriott AORA, you know, take me to the Marriott now.

And he's oh takes know. And even getting into when we got into and I'm picked up at the airport by two former Navy Seals and put into a bulletproof car. I'm like, okay, maybe this is sketch.

You know, looking through didn't when I accepted that call, I don't think I realized how dangerous it was. If I did, I probably wouldn't have gone, but I was already there. And then I see these traffickers, and then they show me the picture of this child.

And it was that moment that the fear went away. I thought, you know what? If there is a God in the universe, he's not okay with that. Eleven year old being sold.

And I believe I have a lot more protection here than all the other things that I've done that put my life in danger. That is crazy. It's almost like, oh, Paul, you felt good to accept this call.

Let me give you some rude awakening. Divinely on day one, the moment he lands, can you recall any other point of no returns aside from day one? Almost getting mugged from taxi on your way to Marriott? That really left a profound, profound imprint that you even feel this visceral, revisiting memory lane. Yes.

It's actually why we named the movie the Sound of Freedom Is. At the day of the Sting operation, these traffickers had brought 54 children. Most of them were under the age of 16 years old.

Many of them were taken from other countries, and we had put them in a separate portion of the house. We were outside negotiating at this table. We had these undercover cameras that the traffickers were sharing where they got the kids, et cetera.

And then there were some really tense situations where we had to delay because the agents hadn't showed up. But once they did, and they arrested all of us, and then some members of the Child Protective Services team, bunch of women were in there with the children and realized that half an hour before I had heard crying. And then this little eleven year old child was brought and presented to me, scared to death and just that traumatic feeling of, wow, this is really happening.

This thing really goes on in the world. And then after those women came in with the children and I could hear very clearly the laughter in there as the women were helping the children feel comfortable and singing with them and things like that. And that sound of freedom was the most beautiful sound that I ever heard.

And I started crying. It was so emotionally powerful to me to hear that sound in comparison to the crying before. And I turned to this operator that was with me, and I said, Scott.

And then Sean was in there as well, the Attorney General. And I said, I've spent my whole life making, my whole adult career making rich people richer, including myself. I want to make a difference.

And I was going to buy a Lamborghini. I had a lamborghini ventadora. I had the pictures of it was a convertible white one.

I had all the plans set up of this one that I was going to buy that spring. And I said, you know what? I'm not going to buy it. I'm going to take the money that I was going to put into that and I want to donate it right now.

What do you guys need? And Sean said he said, paul, unfortunately, the majority of demand for this horrific act, these parties like this in second and third world countries, comes from wealthy, well spoken, well dressed businessmen who look and act and talk just like you. He said, I can't teach the Navy Seals how to wear a $50,000 watch and negotiate like that. He said, and I don't know of any really successful business owners who've had the training that you've had.

If you be the bait, I'll change your whole life. That was the beginning of a brand new, brand new trajectory in my life. What you just said, Paul, reminds me of a quote, and I love to segue into this question.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Why do you think some people go toward the light, whereas many go toward the dark side? Especially because I'm in Hollywood. I cross arm with celebrities and influencers quite often now, and I know some of the darkest secrets in their closets, and it's hard for the public to even grasp.

So I'm not going to go into it. But what I do want to say is, when you have access to anything that you want at the fingertips, you're going to get bored of that. That's why sexually people go younger and younger and younger.

When you can get any supermodels any day of the week, you iterate that for years and years you no longer have any illicit of dopamine release and any desire. So you have to go towards a taboo, the forbidden fruit, that's just one domain. And you cross that with so many other things.

I feel like billionaires and celebrities at a certain statue. They're not really humans because they're so far removed from the regular experiences and the public just cannot even fathom some of their realities. And it's crazy stuff.

But anyway, going back to the thing, why do you think some people go toward the light like yourself, whereas Jeffrey Epstein and so many other people of his kind go towards the dark side? You're 100% right. I've seen it so many times where power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And unfortunately, we live in a world today where a lot of people see themselves as somebody with absolute power.

1000 years ago, the only people with real absolute power were royalty and whatnot. Today you have a really big checkbook and you've got connections with the governor and you have whatever. You end up getting to this point where your moral compass is not affected by any concern that you'll be found out or be taken down and you remove yourself from consequences.

And people get addicted to this level of power and greed and subjugation of other people. Anytime you get to a point where you look at another human being as anything less than an equal, anything less than divine, anything less than is just as good as you, and whether it's because that person doesn't have the same financial ability as me, or that person isn't the same gender as me, or that person doesn't have the same skin color as me, any of those things. When somebody starts going down that road and this is why pornography is damning as well is because when you take a woman from that divine feminine to an object and you start objectifying and you start imagining yourself and being able to go control and fuck anybody you want to.

Whatever it is, you're going down. This space of expansion, of this arrogance and this ego and this belief that people are below you in some way. And then what happens is they get addicted to the rush of something bigger and something better.

I climbed this mountain, now I'm going to climb a bigger mountain. And that was a bigger rush. And for some of them they go down healthy, adrenaline rush increases and bigger accomplishments like climbing a bigger mountain.

But other ones, they go down unhealthy roads like, okay, I'm going to destroy that person's life by taking away their job and their relationships or whatever else. And then I'm going to destroy that person's life by creating some trauma in their life as a child or whatever or rape situation, and then I'm going to even destroy more. And it's this robbing of energy that is insatiable because they're not creating healthy creation of energy within themselves.

And I've seen it a lot. And that's the reason why I was the perfect pick to play that role for the first few years of being that wealthy, well spoken businessman who wants to flaunt his money around. I set up a full Facebook page profile, and it worked out really well because I had pictures of me with Lamborghinis and Ferraris and jets and yachts and whatever, and these undercover guys would go and show this to the traffickers, and they would go, yeah, that's the kind of guy we work with.

And they were used to that, and that's why they were able to bring all their children in, and we could rescue them all at one time. The undercurrent of what you just said is humility. Because if you're truly humble, if you truly review and self evaluate the archives of your behaviors, your patterns, who you are, the essence of who you are, it's hard to be arrogant, because whether you believe in God or not, it's the flaws and the imperfections that makes us human.

But I know quite a bit of spiritual narcissists, and it's mind boggling. But of course, for you, it sounds like through grace, through synchronicity, or whatever language you want to use, you went down to the other path. But it's humility at the center that I sense.

So given your background as a former hedge fund manager of 40 plus billion dollar operations and now in your full throttle philanthropic work plus movies, what does humility mean to you, Paul? Well, I'll tell you this, since you touched on it and brought it up. The first three years of doing undercover work, I was passionate about helping the kids, but I wasn't Paul Hutchinson. I was Paul Effing.

Hutchinson. Right? And that actually went well with this know, the traffickers would see me, and I was was I bought into that know, there were other people that were in this work that had that same arrogance, ego, and they wanted the cameras on them. And I didn't care about the cameras, but I had the best panty dropper story on the know, and that was this energy that I was in.

And some of my operators were such good, good men, but they were caught up in that same thing. I've got guys like Jimmy and Andy and Jeremy and others that are just I'm so close with them today because they about seven years ago came to me and one of them said, paul, do you trust us? And I said, yeah, we put our lives in line together, right, undercover. And they said, yeah, do you like your life right now? And I'm like I'm Paul F.

And Hutchinson. Yeah. They're like, well, you're on your second marriage, and it's about to end.

There's something going wrong in your personal life and everything else. And I said, yeah, maybe I'll get around to that someday. And they said, if you trust us, why don't you come and join us in this ceremony? I'm like I had grown up in a member of a very strict religion.

I hadn't even drank alcohol, let alone tried any mind altering anything. And they said, this isn't drugs like what you've been taught. This is something that's going to break down your ego and allow you to see yourself in a different light.

And we did a plant medicine guided meditation journey experience, and it was the darkest, most difficult thing that I had ever done. I felt in every cell of my body the pain that my children felt when I cheated on their mom. I could feel the energy of people who I had wronged, and just because of my ego, right.

I had parties at my house where I had all of the NBA players in the area. There was like 20 of them there and 150 girls there, right? That was the kind of thing and most guys think, well, that would be cool. No, it wasn't.

I was not acting in total integrity in all the areas of my life. And I could see it and I could feel it, and it broke me down. And I did some mirror work in that space, and I'm looking at myself in the mirror and I thought, are you really proud of being Paul F.

And Hutchinson? Right? Is that what you're proud of? What are you really proud of? What's important? What's the direction you need to be heading in your life? And over the next year, in doing a lot of that inner work, I dropped the effing and I became super humbled. But then I realized that some of the people that I was close to were in that same low vibration energy of massive arrogance and egos, and I couldn't support it anymore. And I had to break ties with some of the organizations I was working with.

And some of the people, even some of the people that were in this work of child trafficking, of fighting it, I realized for a lot of them, it wasn't about the kids. It was about that same ego that I was tied up in. And from there on, every mission meant so much more because it truly was about the kids.

We didn't bring cameras to the missions that I did over the last five years, not one, because it wasn't about the cameras. It was about the kids. And that made all the difference.

So I'm a big fan of Jordan B. Peterson in terms of his intellectual prowess. I read all his books, and my favorite quote from GBP is, life is comprised of what repeats, so get the repeated things right.

I'm sharing that with you because, as you said once you get past the glory and the awe, you really have to be okay with the mundane. I share that with you because I sense a similar through lines where I gravitated towards policymaking. Because in terms of vehicle for change paul policy making zits as a clinician now I could impact 100 people 150 a year, which is amazing.

As an undercover agent you could help a lot of children and humans and modern slaveries and whatnot. But I think so many of us gravitate towards utilitarian the massive macro quantitative impact. And I left policy making because through six years I see some dark side of good people doing bad things for the sake of impact.

When bad people do bad shit, it's not surprising. But when good people like you and I enter the field for the good reason and they are doing good work objectively, but the path they take is questionable at best. So I had to drew that line three years ago and I pivoted out.

I think micro impact matters and I think how we get to that end goal also matters. I realized that just doing the undercover it was making a big difference in the lives of each one of those children. I do like looking at the big picture, but for me I never had and I still don't have any interest in being public, having my face out there.

I've said my whole life I'd rather be rich than popular and I'd rather be rich and not popular. Because then I didn't envy the celebrities that had to hide under a hat everywhere they went. I liked being able to walk into a store, buy whatever I wanted to and have nobody know who I was.

I was fine with that. There was no interest whatsoever in taking this road. And I fought this for a long time of having my face known and my voice out there.

I even said for the last year when I was really being pressured and I felt a divine calling to be a voice. I'm like can it just be about the message? Can I not be the messenger? Can I help push this message out of? And the question is what is the message? And I had to take a step back and understand what I was really fighting for. And if my goal was to eradicate child trafficking, if that's the goal that I made ten years ago, I realized I wasn't doing a very good job because there's more children being sold today than there was ten years ago.

So I thought, okay, is just funding the undercover missions, is that making a difference? What needs to happen, what really, really needs to happen? And I started delving deep into what was the core, the draw, why people would even go down that road. Because I realized every time we pulled 20 children out of hell it would leave a vacuum. If there was still a demand then that.

Demand would be filled somehow, and 20 more children would be sucked into the deepest recesses of hell. And so figuring out how to solve the demand side was the only thing that made sense. And we can go down that in that conversation a little bit later.

But I agree with you. There are so many people that try to be global changers in this and whatever, but it's feeding into their own ego and they're trying to control people. They're trying to, okay, let's put this policy in place so I can control more people and this thing so I can control more people.

And the reality is, if that's the energy of controlling people, it's the same thing I'm fighting, right? If I'm fighting trafficking, which is the sale of people, and I'm going to fight it with more control, it makes you want to take a step back and say, okay, do I fight control with control, or do I get down to the hearts and minds of people? Do I figure out how to help them change from the inside for the right reasons? Right? Not because I have to. And this goes back to our conversation we had just a little bit earlier about power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Because when they don't have that accountability, then the only thing that was keeping them good was the fact that they could go to jail or be arrested or lose their family or whatever else.

But when they have this unlimited power, then they go down this what if we could make it so that even people with that unlimited power could choose the right way? If we could do that, and then we could go to the rest of humanity and help them change their perceptions of themselves, change their perceptions of other people, help them shed their own trauma from their past before they ever transfer that into the lives of other people. There are so many things that we can do to get down to the heart that is different than just implementing additional levels of control. And so that's really where I've gravitated to, because that's what was required for Paul Hutchinson's personal transformation.

I was one of those people with power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. You get to that level of I know every senator and I know the governor, and I have the checkbooks and I have the badge and I have all this know. It leads you to this position of additional arrogance and control and ego.

So by fixing that in myself and understanding what needs to happen to fix somebody who had that level of power, I believe that we can start cracking that open for other people and have them learn to govern themselves and not go down those roads that would implement pain on other people. I tell my clients that everyone's an addict to a certain degree, so choose your addictions carefully, because whether it's clout, money, adultery, sex, meth substances. Everyone has their addictions.

So if you don't choose your addictions, addictions will find you based on your circumstances, which is the undertone what you're saying. And man, there's a lot there. My brain is going 14 different directions.

So I think I'm going to go with some more macro since we're talking about the micro versus the macro in terms of the root cause of the demands within the vacuum that you alluded to. So the movie Sound of Freedom says the children's sex trafficking is now bigger than illegal arms trading with over 200 million children being trafficked of. Is that true? And can you share other important statistics to give some more information and contextualization? Because context matters.

Correction on a few of the details there. It's not child trafficking. It's human trafficking as a whole that is the fastest growing criminal enterprise in the world and has surpassed the arms trade and will soon surpass the drug trade.

Estimates on human trafficking as a whole is somewhere in the vicinity of $150,000,000,000 a year industry wherein it was more profitable last year than all the airlines of the world combined. So yes, it's a big problem. A portion of human trafficking is child trafficking and a portion of child trafficking is child sex trafficking.

That's why there's all kinds of numbers that are being thrown out. Everything from is there 6 million children being sold? Is there 10 million children being sold? Well, what are they being sold for? Are we including organ harvesting and are they being in drug work camps and stuff? Is it the sex trafficking? I will say this the problem. If we dial it all down to just the sex trafficking alone, it's even a really tiny percentage of it of child sex trafficking.

That is what is portrayed in the movie Sound of Freedom. The majority of children that are being trafficked are not being kidnapped from an affluent neighborhood, being transported in a cargo container and taken to another country. That's very small percentage.

The majority of these children are coming from broken homes or coming from foster programs or our runaways, our extremely poor families in second and third world countries who at sometimes will even sell their own children just to be able to feed the other ones that are there. This is very so people come away from watching the movie and they say, well, what can I do? Do I fund a bunch of Navy Seals to go be Rambo and go rescue the kids? No. The best thing that you can do, believe it or not, hug your children.

And they're like, how's that going to fix it? No, that's going to fix it more than you can imagine because of the fact that, number one, those children that are pulled away in traffic come from broken homes and foster programs and runaways, et cetera. But number two, there's a very high percentage, and it's estimated more than half of the children that are being trafficked and sold for sex, sleep in their own bed at night. People are like, what? What do you mean? No, they're sold by their babysitter.

They're sold by their uncle. They're sold by their own parents in many situations. And so to have a relationship with your children where they can come to you and say, hey, dad, I feel uncomfortable when you make me hug Uncle Harry.

Or I feel uncomfortable when I'm at so and so's house because their brother hugs me weird and puts his hand low. Or My babysitter is saying that I should trust her more than you guys, and she's showing me pornography videos and stuff. You need to have that relationship with your children so that those conversations can be easy to have with them.

That's what we do to start stopping this demand. The other thing is to understand that there's a high percentage of the pedophiles and the people who are creating this trauma that have experienced trauma of their own. Now, understand this.

Just because you were trafficked as a child, just because you were raped as a child, the majority of people, God bless them, they grow up to use that as a motivation to protect innocence, right? Two thirds of them never pass that trauma on. But one out of three people who have experienced that kind of abuse as a child, one out of every three become contact offenders themselves in either physical abuse or verbal abuse or in some cases, these cases, sexual abuse. And so if we come to it from a position of compassion now, let me walk you through this.

People ask me, Paul, how can you go face to face with somebody selling you a child and have them not see the anger and hatred for them in your eyes? And my answer surprises them and makes some people mad. It's because there's a part of me that has compassion for them. You can't have compassion.

They're selling you a child. No. I will do everything in my power to ensure they never hurt a child again.

We put them into a place that they can heal and that children don't get at that risk, put them behind bars. But what I wish more than anything is that I had a time machine. And I could go back five years, ten years, 20 years before they ever, ever traumatized a child like that and figure out what was going on in their life, what kind of pain they were holding on to, what bad things happened to them and what bad decisions they made to get them to the point where they thought that it was okay to sell me a child.

And now we don't have a time machine. But what we do have is hundreds of millions of people on Earth today, teenagers, young adults, who have experienced that kind of trauma, that don't get the help that they need, that eventually going down a dark road will end up passing that trauma on. What if we could help them? What if we could give the help to anybody who's holding on to addictions that are driving them to pornography, addictions, that they need something harder to have that same fix? And for some of them, harder is a little bit more grotesque or rape videos or maybe a little bit younger.

A little bit younger and pretty soon they're fantasizing about things they wouldn't have thought was attractive five years ago. What if we could catch them in that addictive cycle before they're even viewing child pornography? If we could help them at that point, we'll literally save millions of children before they're ever traumatized in the first place. I love the compassionate goggles and the underlying grace and I also love the nuances that you're speaking of.

My clients currently are core mandated. I'm a forensic clinician currently in downtown La. And a lot of people I don't share what I do because people just can't fathom since a lot of them have auditory hallucinations, schizophrenia, substance use, co occurring morbidities and so on.

But what I will say in public on the show is if you have heard and witnessed some of their stories that they shared with me in my sessions, you are like, oh, that makes sense. Of course you committed crimes and went to jail because you're raped at age six and so on, like 14 different circumstances. And it is true.

Like, your statistics are accurate and most RSO registered sex offenders they commit with their families, nieces, nephews, their cousins. And most sex offenders happen from home, from families, from people that you are aware of and familiar with. So I love your advice and feedback about hug your children more because when you can establish safety, everything, including vulnerability, is possible.

But you have to establish safety first. And there's so much what you said, but I do want to go into this change to dovetail everything we just talked about. Paul so I often tell my clients that change is from within.

Nobody can change other people, no matter how well intended they are. You make a reference in your recent interview on Adaptive Leaders about change and free will in your part two. Any thoughts there? Because for you, change also happened from within.

And in terms of breaking this intergenerational trauma loop that we've been alluding to this whole time, I believe that change must be the center of the conversation. At the same time, change can only happen from within. Change is inevitable.

It is the one thing that we can't control. Change is always going to happen and the goal is asking yourself what that new version of me or that new version of my life looks like? And steering that. And so many people fear change.

They're like, oh, no, I'm so stuck. I'm happy where I am. Things are going to change whether you like it or not.

And if you are in a destructive pattern in your life if you are doing things that are out of integrity, the one thing that we also can avoid is consequences. And those consequences don't have to happen because of some additional levels of law. This is a law of the universe wherein there is always a reaction to your action.

And whether that is something legal, that somebody who touches a child goes to jail because the actions of other people are going to ensure the innocence of children or whether it's losing a healthy relationship because of your pornography. Addiction or your alcohol addiction or whatever it is or your addiction to your own arrogance and ego. There is inevitable reactions or consequences to everything that you're doing.

And so I realized that I had the ability to direct my life anywhere that I wanted. And I did. I built a multi billion dollar company because I wanted did you know, I visualized it.

I saw it. Our actions create. Our words create, and our thoughts create.

And people ask my business partner, John, they say, did you see it in the beginning? I mean, how did you guys get that big? And he would talk about this story where we would be in this little teeny office so small that we would bump elbows when we turned around, me and John, and we needed like, $25,000 by Friday. And John would I was making calls and raising money, and I'd turn around halfway after a call, and I'd put my little pinky by my mouth, and I would say, john, we're going to be a billion dollar fund someday. Then John said, Paul, we just need $25,000 by Friday, right? He didn't see it, but I did.

And so I was able to visualize and create and attract. It's not just the law of attraction, it's the law of creation. And so as you sit down, most people spend more time planning out their next vacation than they do planning out their life.

But I sat down at that time and I thought, okay, this is my life. I want to have a big house. I want to have nice cars.

I want to have have, have right. And once I got to that top of that mountain, I thought, this is kind of lonely here. Where do I go from here? And I used the same techniques that I use to build a multibillion dollar company, those same techniques to now say, okay, what is out of alignment in my life? What do I need to change? And one of the things that was out of alignment was the fact that I had lots of failed relationships, and I was on the end of my second marriage, and everything was a disaster.

And I thought, you know, maybe I need to change, and maybe I need to direct what that change is because it's going to happen anyway. I'm going to lose this marriage, and I'm going to get into another one, and it's going to be destructive again. So why don't I identify exactly what it is that I want, write it down, get super clear about it, visualize it, and attract that into my life instead of all this crap that I've been attracting.

Is that how you attracted Vanessa? By beating out the superman. So here's a cool story. You ready? That's a great actually, I joke, and I say I created her.

I did. I created her. So this is a little backstory.

So in reference to the Superman thing, just so the audience knows. So Henry Cavill henry Cavill is the actor who plays Superman, right? He was at her work almost every single day. They started a date, not big.

They went on, like, two or three dates, and then she met me. So, yeah, I stole Superman's girlfriend. Now, how do you do that, right? So here's what happened.

I was at a Tony Robbins event. Tony's been a huge supporter of anti child trafficking. He was a supporter of one of the previous foundations that I had worked with.

He's a good, good man. He actually came and saw one of the undercover rescue missions that I had led and witnessed at firsthand, and so we became friends from that. Well, he invited me to one of his conferences in the VIP area, and I brought some other celebrity people that I knew.

And I'm there, and I'm thinking, okay, he's got this portion of his conference where he takes you emotionally. He has you write down something in your business career that's not where you want to be, but visualize where you want it to be, and you write it down in detail. And then he emotionally takes you to achieving it, and then he takes it away from you and takes you back.

And then it's about a two hour section of just writing in detail how it feels, what it looks like. And I thought, you know what? I've used these techniques in every area of my life. I used it to rescue kids and visualizing where they were and feeling that energy and being led by the universe, by God, to where they were.

I used it in building my companies and visualizing it. I've never used this in building a healthy relationship. And so I wrote down in detail, in detail, pages and pages and pages of this is how the woman in my life shows up for me, and this is how I show up for her, and this is how she treats my kids, and this is how I mean, detail on everything, pages and pages and pages.

And less than two months later, I was in Haiti, unfortunately, at a funeral for one of my co undercover operators, but I was there in Haiti at his funeral. And there's Vanessa out of Vanessa. She was a famous actress from Colombia.

She did all the TV series and stuff. I thought, holy crap. I've never seen a girl like that in Haiti right now.

And meeting a beautiful Colombian actress is kind of cool, but when she's donating her time at an orphanage in Haiti, that's really cool. And everything I wrote on my list, everything, pages and pages, was her. I tell her, I created you.

Here it is. Let me show but but, yeah, I beat out Superman for my new wife. We just got married a couple months ago.

We've been dating for a little over five years. So it's been a beautiful and here's the thing, paul f and Hutchinson wouldn't have qualified for a relationship with her. He wouldn't know.

She would have called him on his bullshit. She would have said, you know what? Your arrogance and your ego just doesn't work in my life. But I had done enough of the work by then that I was able to now qualify for a healthy relationship that was fulfilling in every way.

Congratulations on your marriage. Mine is in about next year, in May. Congratulations.

Yeah, congratulations. Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you. And I don't know if you noticed, but that's why I called you the modern Ben. That was a reference to the Superman.

I like playing these little subtle games. It was funny. So a little side note on that.

I had a guy come to put a camera system at the house, and I was going to get like a little four cameras, couple in the front, couple in the back. And he said, Paul, he said, um, cause he knew about my background with the rescue missions and stuff. He said, I'm not gonna try to upsell you in any way just to upsell you.

He said, but you're the closest thing to Batman of anybody I've ever met. He said, you have the cars, you have the lifestyle, and you go undercover and beat out bad guys and whatever. He said.

So he upgraded me to I think we had and it was in the last house, we had 24 cameras outside, a total of 36 cameras everywhere, hidden ones and everything else. And a really robust system of this high intelligence AI system that would detect whether if somebody was walking up to the door with mal intent or just normal. It was super cool.

So I don't have the batmobile or the suit, but the camera system yet, you don't have I'm telling you what, if that suit is only like, 300 grand, that sounds pretty dope. That could be the next movie sound of Batmobile. So, of course, a little bit jokes aside, I do want to contextualize a bit more as a social scientist where law of attractions, law of creation, natural laws, of course, actions and reactions, that's thermodynamics which is natural law.

Law of attraction gets a bad rap for humans when you're priming yourself, because that's what it's called, priming. That's the term that Tony Robbins uses as well. When you prime yourself with visceral visualizations through cues, memories, senses, writing, visualizations whatever may be through the intensity of that.

Over time, if you iterate it through consistency. Your brains cannot actually distinguish the difference between visualized reality and experienced reality. We becomes memories.

So, yes, law of attraction gets a bad rap because there's so many TikTok gurus who've read four pages and created contents. But the science does support visualization. If you do it properly and if it is a visual representations, then over time you become less desperate.

You become more congruent and aligned with whatever you're visualizing, because that feels the same thing psychophysiologically as memory does. So I just want to share that really quickly because on that note, just a quick side note, every one of us have looked at pornography. Just because you see pornography doesn't mean you're going to become a pedophile.

But what happens when you're visualizing that over and over again in your mind? You're thinking, I already did it. So if you're in a healthy relationship or you're trying to be in a healthy relationship and you're viewing that and imagining yourself with that girl on there that you're looking at on pornography in your mind, your mind doesn't know the difference between reality and you've already cheated. That's why it's so important to manage what's coming into your mind and that control, so that you can visualize having a billion dollar fund or finding those children, whatever it is, and seeing that energy.

In fact, I believe that there is a I'm going to call it a spiritual component. It's not just, hey, your mind is now going to now that you're thinking about red trucks, you're going to start noticing them more. Yeah, I see that.

But in finding the kids, it wasn't all about following logic and protocol. It was feeling guided to where they were. In fact, I met a man in my early 20s who had invented over 300 life saving medical devices, and he was the original inventor of the voice recognition software that IBM was using with kind of their version of what we use as Siri today.

He didn't even know how to read and write. He didn't even graduate from elementary school. And he asked me, I got to go to lunch with him.

And he said, Paul, he said, you could have an IQ over 200 if you wanted. And I'm like, no, I'm really not that smart. I worked my butt off and I didn't even get a scholarship.

He goes, no. He said, the difference between me and you is that I listen better than you. And I said, you listen better than me? And I put my hand on my ear.

He said, no, I listen better than you. And he put his hand on his heart. He said, Once you realize that we're all interconnected from something that we don't really see with our eyes and hear with our ears, he said, do you think that I'm the inventor of those medical devices.

I said, this is a trick question. You have the patents, right? He goes, yeah, I do. I said, you're not the inventor.

He goes, not really. What do you mean? He said, how long has the universe been around? I said millions of years. He said, Billions upon billions of years.

He said, those medical devices were invented billions of years ago. I was a better listener than you. He said, There are people in the arts that write their musical creations note perfect the first time, he said, because many of them were already written.

And I'm like, this is kind of weird, but okay. But I learned to start listening to that still, small voice of truth when it came to everything from calling the right person at the right time in business, you're like, somebody will come to your mind, hey, you should call this person. And I don't delay.

I pick up my phone that second, and I make that call. Do it now. Do it now.

And it's amazing how many times that person needed that call right there, or it was something that was super pivotal. And so learning to tune into that really transformational to me as I started going through my own personal transformation and realizing that there was more to life than what I'm seeing and hearing and touching, that there's something bigger. Out there and a bigger purpose and that I can connect with it and use it to help direct me in my life and help me to heal through my own trauma and challenges.

I thought our conversations will get lighter, but I think it's about to get a little bit heavier. So put on your seatbelts. But I do want to go into the pornography area briefly because I struggle with purity, culture, per my Christian faith.

I'm a deacon at my church. I serve every Sunday, as I texted you previously. And of course, I'm engaged happily, so I've done a lot of work.

But porn is something that I think all men and women, but a lot of men struggle with. You listed this Tony Robbins quote in your website. If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten.

Reminds me of another quote where madness is defined by doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. Maybe Jim Carrey said it. I'm not sure.

But I'm bringing that up because I interviewed Erin Dorsey. I shared with you briefly where she is a formerly sex trafficking victim from age 13 to 16 in the United States. She survived.

She took down the perpetrator by working with FBI, and she became an internationally famed model for three years. She blew up all over the place. But through that, she realized a lot of the online grooming tactics, residually were still impacting her.

She was unable to reclaim her divine femininity that she was worthy of because she was never fully healed from the sex trafficking, but also through online grooming tactics that she shared with me about that interview is going to release in the next couple months. But I was so disturbed by what she shared because she told me straight up, she's like, Benoit, some of the porn that you consume, you may not know this because they don't tell you in the descriptions, right? But she's not saying it's for sure, but most likely some of the porn materials that everyday people that we consume with innocuous intent, very innocently, might be the victims of online grooming and some of these psychological tactics that traffickers use. And I was like, Holy shit.

I kind of regretted having that interview because now I have this awareness and this lens that I could just unsee. And this is something I've been grappling a lot about after our interview, but I want to dovetail into because you referenced porn quite a few times and I really wanted to see if I wanted to go into today or table that for a round two conversation, but I think it's a sign, so let's go into it. It's a vast, loaded question, Paul, but given your position and unique expertise in that matter, anything you want to share that you feel absolutely.

It's such a good question because not only in pornography and realize this, it's not just a few, there's a very high percentage portrayed in pornography that are not what you would call independent. In fact, I'll just take this to the next level. So, years ago, we had this young girl who was trafficked from Mexico City.

She was taken to New York. She was sold for sex 2030 times a day, year after year. And her traffickers, just so that her family wouldn't be looking for, just convinced her to write to her family and say, hey, I'm fine.

I just ran away. I'm with some friends. Don't worry about me.

And they used fear to control her. They said, I know where your sister lives, I know where your mother lives, and if you don't do this, then we're going to do these horrible things to your family. And this happens a lot, these fear tactics.

And so she escaped when she was 17. They beat her up severely, got her back. She escaped again.

We brought her to Utah to get away from all of that and to heal. She spent the Christmas holiday at our home. And I was talking to her and I said, Tell me this.

The girls that you see online, girls that are there that say we're independent, right? We're working for ourself, they're earning money to put themselves through college, whatever. I said, the ones that say they're independent is half of them really independent. The other half are being controlled or being pimped or being trafficked.

She said, no, it's not half. She said, well, over 90% of the women that you see that these johns will go on and think. Hey, you know what? This is an adult making a decision with an adult.

So this is fine. We're not hurting anybody here. She said over 90% of them are being trafficked.

She said they're being controlled. They're being controlled through fear. They're being told that if they don't say these certain things, they'll get beat up.

And I have seen it over and over again. We just finished up some rescue missions in Ecuador this last year. Before, while I was still doing undercover, there was this little girl who had a horrible situation.

Her mom died when she was eight. Her dad was a raging alcoholic. She was sent to live with her uncle.

By ten, he was raping her, and she told the family, and the family didn't believe her. The traffickers started grooming her at 13 years old. They convinced her to go to Peru.

Once she got there, they took away her phone and her passport and bought her sexy clothes and said, here's what you're going to do, and if you don't bring in $1,000 a day, you get beat up. And she got beat up, and then multiple times. Finally, it was so bad that she ended up in the hospital.

That's when authorities were called. We came in, we found out about the ring. We took down the entire ring, rescued about 20 plus kids as part of that.

But the reality is, she again tells us, every one of these girls are saying, this is what's happening. They're being controlled. They're being controlled by fear.

And they say every time, yep, I'm independent. And a lot of the ones in pornography the same thing. They're being controlled.

They're being trafficked. So if you're sitting here listening to this, thinking, oh, you know what? You know what? It's a victimless crime. I'm in the privacy of my own office.

I'm looking at pornography. I'm not hurting anybody. It's not a victimless crime.

Those girls are victims. And you don't understand what's happening to the psyche. You don't understand what's happening when you start objectifying another human being, when you start visualizing yourself cheating on your wife with that pornography.

All of that stuff is things that you need to take a step back and say, okay, this is motivation for me to kick this habit, to kick this addiction, because I can see that it's getting harder. It started out with me just looking at Sports Illustrated swimsuit models, and then it went to soft core, and then it went to hardcore. Then if you've already graduated, you're already going that direction.

Where does it end? Right? When is it finally enough for your brain? Because it's already gotten harder and harder in terms of hardcore porn, right? Understanding that everybody who is looking at porn walked down that path, they didn't start out with watching rape videos. They started out with something a lot softer, right? And so we have to understand and recognize that in ourselves and recognize the fact that there's a very high chance that those are victims and you're contributing to that darkness in the world. Wow.

Yeah, we got heavy right here on episode one. Wow. Definitely went into the tready waters, but nothing added on my ends.

But just to light up the mood a little bit, even as a psychotherapist who's used to these stories, I'm a big fan of stand up comedies. Theo Vaughn, he recently quit watching porn. I don't know if it lasted, but he quit.

And he made a joke on a podcast where he talks about, yeah, I had to quit watching porn because one day I caught myself watching Grandma porn. And he's like, what the fuck is happening with me? He's like, how did I get here? But it's funny. And you're like, bestiality and just like, watching Grandmas, what happened to me? But psychologically, it's dopamine regulation.

Your brains are about 3 million years old, give or take. You could be the most self aware cultivated practices guru. 70 years old, max.

70 has no chance to get 3 million. Evolutionly primed brain that optimizes pleasure. So I think what you said is really, really important because a, yes, awareness is important.

But more importantly, awareness without action actually becomes a burden. I think that's what we face in 2023. There's so many podcasts.

Everyone and the mothers have a podcast now. Everyone's a self proclaimed gurus. And there's so many motivations.

I call it motivation porn. They're cool and they help temporarily on a short term level. But if you have this heightened awareness because of this massive information and missive information era we live in, but if you're not doing anything about it, that actually becomes dissonance and incongruence internally, and that's going to come back and bite you tenfold.

And at that point, it's not too late, per se, but it's easier to adhere to what Paul said. What you're saying is if you're knowing some of these tendencies, myself included, I'm not watching Grandma porn by any means. But that tendency is ubiquitous for anything that you do, right.

If you started off as roller coasters, you go bungee jumping and then you go skydiving, the list goes on. If you're aware of your tendency and you see the pathway before you, we have to act now. And I just wanted to put that on a messenger board.

Find something good to be addicted to. There's plenty of healthy things. Get addicted to the feeling of charity work.

I served on the Make A Wish Board of directors for seven years. I was addicted to that feeling of seeing a child get their wish when they're struggling with a life threatening illness. I loved that.

I love that we have some friends. My wife goes out with some of her friends and goes and helps to feed the homeless to dish it out. And it's a rush.

It's a beautiful thing to get addicted to doing good and making a difference in the world. Those are super positive. And I ask myself, why is it so easy for people to get addicted to destructive behaviors? Can't they get addicted to love and peace and charity work? And there's a degree of energy and excitement that comes from stepping out of line or doing something illegal or whatever else.

But you can get that same rush, that same energy with super healthy activities, with your family learning how to wakeboard behind your boat, or there's so many beautiful things that you can do that are building relationships, building your character and healthy in terms of that dopamine rush. Oh, this is awesome. I love this conversation because likewise, like we talked about, because your brain is 3 million years old at least you're not going to beat it.

Like beating it is not the point because you don't have a chance. So if you cannot beat the game, but you can tweak the game by adhering your brain to positive dopamine release, because to your brains are all the same. So I love what you said.

And speaking of positive things, I started our podcast today by saying you're the modern Batman who beat out the Superman romantically with Vanessa, your newly wife. In 2016. You were united as Sir Paul Hutchinson.

Not, sir. Paul effing. Hutchinson.

But Sir Paul Hutchinson by the Knight of the Templar. I don't know anything about the knighting, but I did look into the organizations and I know the religious affiliations historically, but yeah, what was that experience like? It was truly an honor. And there's a lot of people out there that say, oh, that's kind of weird, you do secret combinations.

I don't pledge my allegiance to anybody but God. I'll just start it out that way. I'm a nondenominational Christian, but I am very Christian.

The Order of I've actually been knighted twice. I was knighted a Knight of the Templar, and that's the oldest knighting organization. It goes back many, many years.

And people think that the Templar started out in about 1200 Ad. It's a commitment to good. It's an honor that says, I have dedicated my life for the purpose of protecting innocence, of upholding good and righteousness.

And I have behind me this knight that is praying on his knees. That's really what it is to me, is that commitment to God. I was knighted a second time by Prince Lorenzo di Medici in Rome, and it's a different order, but again, it's that same commitment.

Commitment to God, commitment to good, commitment to using my armor and my sword in terms of my voice and my whatever to bring about light and truth and good and protection to the world. So thank you for asking about that because it was special to me. In fact, in my heritage, if you follow through my father's line, my grandmother was a steward, the steward of England.

They were royalty. And I could follow all the way back to Sir William Wallace I'm honored to be a part of that DNA heritage as well, with wonderful leaders that fought for good throughout history. I just finished watching the show on Netflix, Quarterbacks, and I don't know if you've seen it, but they talk about Kirk Cousins, Patrick Mahomes, their 2022 Super Bowl season.

And I'm talking about Kirk Cousins because I've only known him by saying, you like that. That's the only thing I knew about him. But I didn't know anything else about Kirk cousins.

But in the documentary Quarterbacks on Netflix, this is not sponsored by the show. He won award that's distinguished and only give out to one servant leader. Because everything you alluded to and the things I want to embody every Sunday through church is servant leadership.

How can I get on my knees below the people I'm serving? Not at their level, below their level, because that's what Jesus embodied. Aside from all the controversies, yes, Christianity had very dark stages. They used to burn feminists as witches in the stick.

I'm very aware of the history, but to me, Christian just means embodiment of love, which is what Christ did. He won this special award in the show, and he was so honored by it because he didn't win the MVP. Patrick Mahones won it by a large mile because he's just a God given talent.

But he won this award and he said, football is going to end one day. Whether it's football, whether it's your real estate, hedge funds, whether it's podcasting or psychotherapy, they're all going to end. And they're just one of many chapters that our life comprises of.

But he said, the good deeds I do, the integrity I buy by the good life that I adhere to, that's going to be endless. And he was more honored by that recognition than winning MVP. I want to share that with you because I sense the same sentiment from you, Paul, today.

And I really, really learned a lot from you today, because watching your reels that's post produce is one thing. Of course, stories are powerful because even earlier when you talked about the porn that we watch, oh, it's a victimless crime. Crime.

I think humans most powerful ability is our ability to create stories, because stories outlast when we die, the stories will live on. That's the legacy we strive for in terms of positive impact. So I think it's really important for us to start tweaking and correcting and be mindful of the stories we tell about ourselves and others, whether it's porn, whether it's human trafficking, modern slavery, or anything in between.

But that's the biggest takeaway I've taken, is we all tell stories about ourselves in our lives and about others. So let's make sure we're telling the most accurate, truthful stories that's aligned with who we are. Thank you, Benoit.

Such a pleasure speaking with you, feeling your heart. This interview has been very different from a number of others because everybody else is like throwing politics in or what was it like to be? And you came from a beautiful place of the heart with well thought out questions and leading the conversation to help me to open up my heart and really dig into the emotion and of my personal transformation. And I'm really excited to visit with you in person, in studio in Los Angeles, and having a part two as well.

This is my metaphorical red carpet moment where can people check you out and anything you want to share with the world. You can find my foundation, the Child Liberation Foundation, by going to Liberateschildren.org liberatechildren.org

and on all social media. You can find me. You can just type in Liberate and it'll all come up first.

But the full is Liberating humanity. We'll bring you up on Instagram and Facebook and TikTok and everything. You can find great information for you and your family to learn more about how to keep your children safe, et cetera, and other information that's going to be coming out by going to my new website, liberatinghumanity liberatinghumanity.com.

And I'm trying to buy the Liberating humanity without the hyphen, but I'm waiting to hear back from the broker on that. But find ways to contribute. Can you come? Find ways to help your family, anything that this is a global effort.

This isn't about me, this isn't about the actors in the movie, this is about humanity. And I believe we're at this beautiful transformation stage that we can all come together and make a huge difference in the world. Yeah, it's only an inflection point if you do something about it.

On a last side note, I wanted to buy the domain Discovermore.com, but it's up for 50K by the owner, so definitely not at that stage. But eventually I like to buy Discovermore.com

because my mission on the podcast is I want to make my podcast and my team's great effort to be the synonymous with curiosity, and that's my stride. And I'd like to do this for six more years at least. Yeah.

Paul, I appreciate your thoughtfulness, your expertise, the harrowing and just viscerally, powerful and memorable stories you share with me today, and just everything that you've done. I've respected you from afar since I came across your content. I enjoy the movie myself, but I think I enjoyed this one on one conversation much more than the movies or any other content I've watched in preparation.

But thank you, Paul, for everything. If you enjoy my conversation that is deep and insightful and truthfully, thought provoking and deeply uncomfortable with Paul, I urge you to check him out and also just share this episode with one friend. It's free for you, but it is known as the best free growth strategy for the podcast.

And as always, I hope you choose love over fear and choose curiosity over complacency in the next week's train of Discover More. Thank you for tuning in.